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Popular Christian TV host comes out
Says he wants to live honestly and is no longer afraid

by Brent Meredith
Apr 16, 2008

Local Nashvillian and host of The Remix Azariah Southworth Photo provided

Letter to the Editor  |  Other Articles by this Author

Posted by pennyjane  09/09/08 2:05 PM

when you can come to others, humbly, equally ignorant of the great master plan of God you will find that you can talk with and not at. your voice might become more then just hateful noise. may God bless you with empathy, shine His light on your dark and empty soul and make you worthy of the many blessings He has bestowed upon you. and may you learn love, kindess, acceptance, mercy and compassion to tempter your hateful nature with. where there is life there is hope, even for one such as yourself. pj

Posted by pennyjane  09/09/08 2:00 PM

well, army of hate. everything you quote is magnificient, truthful and the living spirit of our Lord. the problem is you mis-interpret it. you are blissfully ignorant of any but your own opinion just as you accuse others. you see no validity in the perspective of another. perhaps you are a kind and decent person just so eat up with earthy arrogance that you actually cannot make the connection between your hateful and condecending rhetoric and evil, but...dear one...there is a clear and present connection. you do unimaginable harm to many of the loved ones of our God. you must accept that God has made Jesus the soul judge of all of us...you too. imagine that, you too will come under judgment when your time comes. i pray that Jesus will treat you with much more kindness, understanding and mercy then you are willing to share with the rest of His creation. this most certainly has not been a debate, it's just what always happens when the preface is that "you are not acceptable to God." you speak for God and that's just plain silly, you are no more then a dark speck of nothingness compared to God and yet you so arrogantly think you can speak His mind for Him. you will never communicate with anyone in any meaningful manner with that attitude.

Posted by christsarmy  09/07/08 2:41 PM

"An unfriendly man pursues selfish ends; he defies all sound judgment. A fool finds no pleasure in understanding, but delights in airing his own opinions. When wickedness comes, so does contempt, and with shame comes disgrace. The words of a man's mouth are deep waters, but the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook. It is not good to be partial to the wicked, or deprive the innocent of justice. A fool's lips bring him strife, and his mouth invites a beating. A fool's mouth is his undoing, and his lips are a snare to his soul. The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to a man's inmost parts. One who is slack in his work is brother to one who destroys. The name of the Lord is a strong tower; the righteous run to it and are safe. The wealth of the rich is their fortified city; they imagine it an unscalable wall. Before his downfall, a man's heart is proud, but humility comes before honor. He who answers before listening--that is his folly and his shame. A man's spirit sustains him in sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear? The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out. A gift opens the way for a giver and ushers him into the presence of the great. The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him." Proverbs 18:1-17 and before you make some snappy comment like you always do, actually think about this scripture. I won't argue back anyway because I hereby leave this debate in peace.

Posted by christsarmy  09/07/08 2:09 PM

You act sympathetic towards flies...perhaps because the lord of them controls your actions?

Posted by pennyjane  07/27/08 3:02 PM

hi gOys. you know, you can't really talk intelligently with these bigots. all you can do is just spit their hate and stupidity back at them until they tire of the abuse and go pick on a more defenseless target. you can really see how morally corrupt they are and how base is their cognitive functioning when you hear such idiotic statements as we just heard the army of hate make..."i know people who ""choose"" to be homosexual." a retarded moron with an idiot complex could see how stupid is that kind of thinking in his sleep. this idiot probably actually does think that he chose to be heterosexual, if in fact he is. more likely he's so gay it would scare the rest of us to death, just too cowardly to admit it, so he preaches hate...it's amzing how many of these self-righteous gay bashers we find in boy prostitutes' beds, or in the bathroom making passes at undercover cops isn't it? sure am glad we do have a God who in the end will sort it all out, the wheat to the pantry and the chaff to the fire.

Posted by g0ys.org  07/26/08 11:11 AM

A group of men who happen to prefer men ( called g0ys - spelled w. a zer0) have developed an aggressive theology apologetics section on their main website. Very frank, honest & blunt -- it is simple enough for "Bubba-Baptist" to understand as well as providing the theological ammunition that anyone so terrorized by "Bubba-Baptist" needs to confront those people who falsely believe that the Jewish/Christian Scriptures EVER FORBADE same-gender relationships. G00GLE g0ys to learn more about the movement.

Posted by pennyjane  07/22/08 6:48 PM

and here we go...one thing i am pretty sure of is that you and i won't run across one another in the hereafter. and, i, for one, know i'm going to heaven. so why don't you just go back to pulling the wings off flies, or taking candy from babies or whatever it was you used to do before you decided to make life miserable for homosexuals.

Posted by pennyjane  07/22/08 6:44 PM

you....army of hate...a prophet? now we're getting just downright sacreligious. if you're a prophet then i'm santa clause. for one so ignorant you sure have a high opinion of yourself...bigot.

Posted by pennyjane  07/22/08 5:59 PM

ok, on that we agree. i don't know what God's going to do any more then you do. so why don't you get up off your bigoted soapbox and stop telling us about ourselves? as scripture says, why don't you pluck the log from your own eye before you get yourself all worked up over the splinter in mine? i know, because you're a BIGOT! plain and simple. is it because you don't take your marching orders from God's Word, you take them from the devil? give him my worst at your next conference.

Posted by christsarmy  07/22/08 5:14 PM

I'm not at liberty to speak for who's going to heaven and who's going to h@!l by the way, which is why I put an "or." I, for one, know that I am going to heaven, though.

Posted by christsarmy  07/22/08 5:12 PM

And won't you feel stupid when both of us are in heaven or when I am in heaven, and you aren't?

Posted by christsarmy  07/22/08 5:10 PM

And what if one of my spiritual gifts is prophecy and I'm SUPPOSED to speak for God? Wouldn't you have just judged God's creation?

Posted by pennyjane  07/22/08 12:23 PM

as i said, army of hate...i do not harshly judge how God made you, i judge the dispicable thing you have done with it. you judge God...you do that by judging His creation. you use your own prejudice to explain God's creation, you take it upon yourself to speak for Him. you say homosexuality is a "test". that is your mean, cruel and hatefull assessment...not the Word of God. yes, i do reflect your ugliness back at you. i do that intentionally so that maybe you, if there is any of your soul left, might see the light. it's how you treat all of us without ever hearing a word form us. you are, quite simply, a foul and disgusting bigot: the voice of the devil trying to turn good people and beautiful souls away from God and into the darkness with you. of course it is metaphorical but you do live with the slime and the disgusting filth we might find up in the persistent darkness under rocks. you may harm the weak and the vulnerable, but for those of us who know and Love God and walk behind our loving and graceful Savior you are clearly seen for what you are...the voice of the underwould, a cry for company in h@!l. we will not follow you there and we will fight your evil until our Lord brings us Home.

Posted by christsarmy  07/22/08 11:44 AM

Ok, it's completely unfair, but your "strategy" is to tell me that I don't believe the things I do and that I do things I don't. For example, I have blatantly stated many times before that I believe SOME homosexuals were made the way they are. Trust me, I know some who choose to be that way. And then right here, you state that I believe the opposite! I will not be swayed, so don't attempt. I didn't ask whether it was true that bigots live under filthy rocks, I told you to ask yourself if that was hateful or not. And doesn't condemning involve judging? Another example of you telling people their wrongs and then putting their wrongs into effect into your own life and doing the things you accuse them of right back in their own face! How will anyone learn from you if you say one thing and do the other?

Posted by pennyjane  07/21/08 10:07 PM

well, that's the first honest thing i've heard you say, army of hate. it is not yours to judge me. did you hear yourself say that? listen..."IT IS NOT YOURS TO JUDGE ME". this according to you, evil one. so, maybe you could stop doing it? huh? what do you think? stop judging others? is that possible you so full of bigotry. yes, that's where bigots come from. up under nasty, filty rocks where evil dwells. notice, i don't condemn you, evil one, for how you were made, God made you just as He made me. i condemn you because you have taken that beautiful creation and turned it into something filty and evil. you and your self-righteous breathern have been the cause of unimaginable torture and pain, you personally are responsible for driving people away from God. homosexuals cannot not be homosexuals, you moron, God made us this way. it's filth and evil like you who say such things and the weak listen and self-destruct. if you had one ounce of decency in you you would get down on your knees and beg God to forgive you for making something so foul and evil out of His wonderful creation. you're right, you will be judged and all the beautiful souls you have fouled with your disgusting hate and bigotry will be there the give testamony. i's sure glad i will be taking my sins before Jesus on that day, and not yours.

Posted by christsarmy  07/21/08 7:32 PM

Oh... yes. I'm so evil...muahhahahahah!(sarcasm) Can you honestly believe that? Both of us believe love is the answer, so we might as well stop bickering about that. My goal is not to turn people from homosexuality. It was originally so that I could stop people from believing that "the Bible says nothing about homosexuality." Now my goal is to show you that while you say I hate people, that I am evil, that I am ignorant about the whole scripture; yet throughout this whole debate, if you will, you have been doing the very things you accuse me of! If I may quote your words for reference, "go on back under your filty rock and wallow with the rest of the evil you so lustfully fulfill.' (I'm not saying this to you) Is that not hateful? Stand before Christ and tell Him that is not hateful, for He is to judge you; it is not my job to do so.

Posted by pennyjane  07/21/08 12:19 PM

well, hello there army of hate. sorry to see you again. may i ask why it is that with all the sin in the world, murder, desecration of the planet, unnecessary hunger, vilolence against women, child abuse...all these sins who side by side even to your conception of homosexuality pales it by comparison? it seems to be a matter that consumes so much of your attention? wouldn't your hatred of sin be better aimed at some of these places where there would be a chance for you to do some good? do you actually think that your hate filled rants in here are going to turn even one person from homosexuality? seems as if you have forgotten the words of Chist, you use scripture to validate your own priorities and prejudices. Christ is not a bigot, you are. Christ loves me with all his heart, he will never harm me...as you so gleefully do. go on back up under your filty rock and wallow with the rest of the evil you so lustfully fulfill.

Posted by christsarmy  07/13/08 12:52 PM

We focus on such acts because they are the sin. As I said before, the sin is not being homosexual, for some really are attracted to those of the same sex. It becomes a sin when you act on your homosexual beliefs, sinning because of them. Also, based on the Bible, your spouse should be Christ. All summed up for followers of Christ, homosexuality is a test of whether you can still follow Christ when born with said attraction.

Posted by fruitrollup  06/10/08 11:07 AM

Why is that all thos opposed to homosexuality focus solely "on the gross sex acts." There is more to homosexuality than that, there is a loving relationship. Homosexuals do the same things heterosexual people do, all the mundane tasks of daily life, the only difference is they love someone of the same sex.

Posted by fruitrollup  06/10/08 10:55 AM

For the Bible Tells Me So http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=8079306618277312330&hl=en

Posted by pennyjane  05/05/08 5:25 PM

ooppppsss! caught my own self in a mistatement. it wasn't st paul, apostle to the gentiles who met with cornelius, it was indeed st peter, apostle to the jews. and it was indeed peter who shocked the jews with his proclamation that all who recieve the Holy Spirit should also be batized with water in the name of Jesus Christ. guess that makes the point even a bit more emphatically. all who come to God, whatever their state of human disgrace, should be welcomed with love into the Body of Christ. no man has the right to judge what God has made and no man has the authority to withhold the grace God gives. God will take the wisdom from the wise and give it to the slow, He will take the strength from the strong and give it over to the weak. He will crush the powers that be and lift up the downtrodden. those who persecute will be persecuted. those who hate will be hated. those who judge will be judged. those who love will be loved.

Posted by pennyjane  05/05/08 5:25 PM

ooppppsss! caught my own self in a mistatement. it wasn't st paul, apostle to the gentiles who met with cornelius, it was indeed st peter, apostle to the jews. and it was indeed peter who shocked the jews with his proclamation that all who recieve the Holy Spirit should also be batized with water in the name of Jesus Christ. guess that makes the point even a bit more emphatically. all who come to God, whatever their state of human disgrace, should be welcomed with love into the Body of Christ. no man has the right to judge what God has made and no man has the authority to withhold the grace God gives. God will take the wisdom from the wise and give it to the slow, He will take the strength from the strong and give it over to the weak. He will crush the powers that be and lift up the downtrodden. those who persecute will be persecuted. those who hate will be hated. those who judge will be judged. those who love will be loved.

Posted by pennyjane  05/05/08 12:31 PM

the pharisees and the sadducees were utterly convinced that they knew what God wanted of the people. they presecuted, imprisioned and murdered these new practitioners of "the way". the followers of this Jesus who ran around preaching love and inclusiveness of all were becoming a real threat as more and more people were converted and brought under the shield of the Holy Spirit. the conservative power structure was in danger of being uprooted in the name of the new way, the way of love and peace. so they brought down all the authority they held on these people. they martyred all they could...stephen was murdered in a blind rage by the bigots...errr..the pharisees. they tried to do in peter and paul as well, but God wouldn't permit it. He sent angels to release them from prisons under the very eyes of the guards. over and over again it happens. Jesus sends people who are hated and despised to become loved and cherished. it's the same old story with us. the bigots are threatened by us, they will lose control of christianity if we are included, the light will shine and they will slink away in the shadows, the way of all bigots of all time. the Message of the living God is just as simple today as it was 2000 years ago. love, love unconditionally, relentlessly, love your neighbors, love your enemies...and don't forget to love your brothers and sisters who are being exterminated in the present day spiritual holocaust of the bigots.

Posted by pennyjane  05/05/08 12:11 PM

for it is written..."these people have recieved the Holy Spirit, just as we also did. can anyone, then, stop them from being babtized with water? so he ordered them to be babtized in the name of Jesus Christ."...st paul to the amazed jews at learning that God didn't just love them, but loved everyone equally. the pharisees, the keepers of the law, the bigots of their day, were revolted and disgusted. they rose up and pounded their scripture, the Holy words of God..."this cannot be! this Jesus is a false prophet!"

Posted by pennyjane  05/05/08 12:03 PM

it is written..."you yourselves know very well that a jew is not allowed by his religion to visit or associate with gentiles. but God has shown me that i must not consider ANY PERSON ritually unclean or defiled."...st paul in his visit with the roman centurian, cornelius. if bigots weren't so closed minded and self-centered God might show them the same thing.

Posted by pennyjane  05/03/08 10:40 PM

oh, and armyofhate, to diappoint you further; when i ask God to forgive my sins, homosexuality or transsexualism are certainly not included. i would consider it blasphemy to apologize for what God has made. how absurd would that be? "Oh, God, please forgive me for being what You have made." and, too.....it is written..."it is better to marry then to burn with passion." and that wasn't directed at just heterosexuals, there was no qualification. so when you argue against same sex marriage you argue against the absolute words of scripture. it's ok, armyofhate, just blow that one off too. it doesn't support your hateful, bigoted agenda so of course it is of no consequence.

Posted by pennyjane  05/03/08 11:11 AM

Jesus did not quote chapter and verse because He knew that He wasn't justified by scripture, it was Himself who justified scripture. a lesson you might learn.

Posted by pennyjane  05/03/08 10:55 AM

and, again you are wrong, armyofhate, atihisis of Christ: in the days our Lord walked the earth the average person had never read for himself of scripture. neither did he have access nor was he literate. they depended on the pharasees (people like you) to read and interpret it for them. and the pharasees (just like you) shared only that part of the scripture they wanted the people to know. they (just like you try to do) led the people over and over again into evil and to God's judgment. we know too, that it was the pharasees (your spiritual ancestors) who murdered the mortal Jesus and justified it through scripture. and you, armyofhate, continue to try to work your evil on the eternal Jesus. spouting hate and bigotry and justify it by scripture. it won't work, you will have your day like all evil, but in the end it will be the living and loving Christ who will win out.

Posted by pennyjane  05/03/08 9:05 AM

you do persist. quote the words that suit your agenda, ignore the Word. and stop whining about me calling you names. you call us all the worst name of all and then justify your own inadaquacy by calling it the Word. more hipocracy. please, either know and accept the whole of the words or stop preacing only your own version. we can quote scripture back and forth at each other all day long and go nowhere, there's plenty for both of us. the failure of the words, you can interpret them as you choose and i as i choose. you choose hate and fear, i choose love and light. stop with the bigotry, pluck the log from your own eye and leave me to deal with my splinter. too much to ask? probably, you are not interested in the Word, only the words that suit your own bigoted agenda.

Posted by christsarmy  05/03/08 7:58 AM

**James 3:13-16

Posted by christsarmy  05/03/08 6:57 AM

Christ DID die for all, but to save them from sin. "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." (2 Timothy 4:3) And again, you must appeal to others on the basis of fact, not emotions. You can call me names all you want, but, "Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice." (James 3:3-16)

Posted by christsarmy  05/03/08 6:57 AM

Christ may have died for all our sins, but we must say we have sinned. The instant Christ died, everyone to come wasn't automatically saved. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9) I only quote chapter and verse so that you may check and confirm my words. People in Paul's and Jesus's time didn't need that because they knew the entire Bible almost verbatim. "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? ABSOLUTELY NOT!" (Galatians 2:17) Just because you believe yourself to be righteous enough to instruct me, yet you still sin, that doesn't mean Christ enjoys your sin.

Posted by pennyjane  05/03/08 12:56 AM

by way of the Holy Spirit we learn that God's justice is not like ours. to us justice is just a tit for a tat; an algebraic expression...when one side equals the other it is finished. God's justice is not like that at all. incorportated in divine justice are the matters of mercy and compassion. God doesn't temper His justice with mercy, mercy is a congenital function of His justice...we call it grace. we cannot grasp that. we think that everyone should get just what they deserve. we sill are of the illusion that if you break the law, you pay the pennance...if you do the crime, you do the time. that's not how God works it. He knows that if He judges us on that basis we will all be lost. that is why He sent for us the Word, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit. Jesus died on the cross so that we will not have to be judged by our sins, but we could commune with the Holy Spirit and know love, and know the Word. this is what i get from my christian faith. not fear, hate or judgment, but love and compassion. humility in the face of grace. "courage," i quote bishop gene robinson, "is but fear, having said it's prayers." you who are living in fear, fear of what you don't understand, pray and you too can turn your fear into courage, the courage to truly love your neighbor as you love yourself. grace is love.

Posted by pennyjane  05/03/08 12:32 AM

in the first chapter and verse in the gospel according to john we learn that "in the beginning was the Word. and the the Word was with God and the Word was God." note, john did not say "the words". in the fourteenth verse he goes on to explain that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. this was Jesus Christ, the Word. the words are wonderful and teach us much about how to reflect the love of God on the world around us, but the Word comes to us by way of the Holy Spirit. any of us can go thru the bible and quote chapter and verse, just as i have done here. this requires no more then an average memory. but the Word relies on no memory. the Word is living, is active and dynamic. nowhere in the gospels do we hear Jesus quote chapter and verse. He says..."for it is written...." didn't Jesus know the scriptures? i think so, but He knew too that there was something more powerful then the words. He knew of the Holy Spirit...because it was Him, the Word. the words can and do cause conflict, because we don't understand them and we can't grasp the contradictions: but the Word is clear, pure and precise. when you are in communion with the Holy Spirit you learn things that words just cannot express.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 11:55 PM

you really just don't get it at all. i suppose i should feel better now that you have decided to congratulate me on my christian life. all is well. no, you just don't get it at all. you are so narcissistic, so stuck on yourself that you just cannot understand that my life is in Christ is just simply not yours to judge. where does such unmitigated arrogance come from? honey, nothing in me believes it comes from God. you think i serve you? you think that your congratulations means anything at all to me? i serve Christ, dear, and only Christ. He and He alone is my judge. i guess if i had any respect for you at all your congratulations might provoke a little humility, but i don't respect you as a person. i don't respect any bigot no matter who they rant and rave against. i don't respect the kkk, i don't respect the nazis and i don't respect homophobic bigots. i respect good christians who love God and love Jesus and want to do His will on earth...HIS will. love.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 11:38 PM

and so, according to scripture, you need to cut off your tongue and throw it away. your tongue causes you to sin repeatedly, rather you admit it or not. if you don't admit it then you are either stupid or a liar. why do you hold others to standards you don't meet yourself? why do you continue to give advice you don't take? when you are without sin, honey, then it'll be alright if you want to throw stones....but you won't, it's a sin.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 11:24 PM

i don't know about you and i don't know about most bigots, but myself and all the christians i know ask for forgiveness for all our sins everyday. we do this because we know we are sinners, perpetual, repeat offenders. you are in that boat too, just in case you don't know it. you sin all day everyday. you sin when you know it and you sin when you don't. so why are you so concearned with my sin? rather it's real or precieved, it's a matter between me and my God. it's not your sin. you cannot save my soul, only God can do that, so quit trying. try to make my life better. do as Jesus says if you want to help, sell everything you have a give it to me. i'm poor and in need. or is it just advice you can afford to give? advice is cheap, and frankly only worth it's price. if you want to do God's work on earth, take care of the poor and the widows as Jesus said. i can't recall one place where he said you should make it your cause to save homosexuals who aren't interested in your salvation when there is so much real and immediate need in the world. focus on the high priority needs, the ones you can help with, not the ones you can't.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 11:16 PM

if you really knew anything about the scriptures you would know that one does not earn their way into heaven. that's the old way and it didn't work. we are saved by grace. you, me and everyone else. God will make His choice based on which sinner He chooses to grace. you have no more of an idea of who that might be then i do. only He knows His mind, not you. learn some humility, submit yourself to Him. stop worshiping false gods, stop holding yourself out as superior. you are not! you are a falible, sinful human being struggling to make it in this world, just like the rest of us. concearn yourself, as paul says in the bible, with the log in your own eye and not with the splinter in mine. have your own opinions and prejudices, but don't lay them at the feet of a loving, merciful and compassionate God. a God who loved us all so much that He sent His only begotten son to die for our sins. ALL our sins, not just yours, and not just mine, but He defeated sin, all sin and for all time, by His resurrection. don't flatter yourself that because you weren't born homosexual you have some kind of leg up on those of us who were, you don't. God will choose. by your arrogance and bigotry you do harm. real harm to real people and i can't see where that does any good at all. you can harp on me 'till the cows come home and i will still be homosexual, and i will still commit l&{t in my heart. and, fearfully for your idea of how to achieve your own salvation, so will you.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 10:22 PM

I'm just saying that if you continue to ask for forgiveness and once saved always saved is correct, then all will be saved who have asked for forgiveness. But if once saved always saved is not correct, those who continue to ask for forgiveness will be saved and those who believe in once saved always saved are lost. God doesn't just pick random people to save; he has set standards for a Christian life specifically in the Bible.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 10:18 PM

What you said changes a lot. I am not against homosexuality; some people do have genetic/biological reasons that make them feel attracted to the same sex. I am, however, against people who sin because they are homosexual. That is where it's wrong. Christ said that if you l&{t for someone, it's just as bad as doing the actual thing. Then he goes on to say that if a body part causes you to sin, to throw it away. I do congratulate you on continuing to live a Christian life while being homosexual. It is better to lose one small thing than to have your whole body be thrown into h@!l.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 10:17 PM

you are so presumptuous. i'm done with you. once saved always saved? who died and made you the savior all of a sudden? is this karen? you sound as ignorant and arrogant as her. GOD SAVES WHO HE CHOOSES BY HIS GRACE, you idiot, HIS GRACE!!!!!!!!!!!!! not yours, not anybody but HIS GRACE!!!!!!!! and you are exactly right about one thing, anyone so arrogant and so full of knowledge that you can sit in judgment of others has no need of Christ. that's you. you've got it all solved and can earn your own salvation. what use do you have for Christ? you've got it all figured out yourself. Lord, get me out of here, this stuff is just too deep and i have no boots.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 10:09 PM

you choose the scripture that fits your agenda, and ignore the rest. i respect it all. i accept that there are contradictions and that i am not fully aware of all that goes on. i am not judging you, or your relationship with God, i keep saying over and over again that that is between you and God. it is YOU who want to get in between me and God and tell me what He thinks. that's arrogance, you do not know what God tells me any more then i know what God tells you. the difference is that you presume to know. you presume to know the mind of God and you presume to give Him advice. that's arrogance. and you know nothing of homosexuality. didn't Jesus say there is no difference between commiting adultry and feeling l&{t in your heart? homosexuality isn't about what one does, it's about who one is. i have never comittied a homosexual act in my life, but i am still homosexual...i will die homosexual and you decieve yourself if you think that's not true. so, according to Jesus i am as guilty of homosexuality as is one who acts on His desires every day. who are you to supersede the judgment of Christ? who are you to contradict Him by saying one relieves herself of the guilt of adultry by abstaining? who are you to advise people to lie by saying they aren't homonsexual by abstaining from sex? you do others harm, that is not love, that is arrogance and adolatry.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 10:08 PM

The Bible doesn't only say to love. I don't believe in 'once saved, always saved' as you do. If you're right, and once saved always saved is correct, I lose nothing believing how I do...however, if you believe once saved always saved, and it's not the way, well, we know the outcome of that. So, I win either way. http://www.behindthebadge.net/osas/index.html "On hearing this, Jesus said to them, 'It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.'"(Mark 2:17)

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 9:55 PM

From: Posted by pennyjane 05/02/08 21:34 CSTWhere did you get that argument from? It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You're preaching to the choir. If homosexuality is so right, why did God create man for woman? Wouldn't he have created man for man, or woman for woman? "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.''For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Mark 10:6,7)

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:47 PM

you want to do tough love, i submit you haven't gotten good at the easy love yet. why don't you practice that, and leave the tough stuff for the Lord God, who gets it.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:43 PM

the bible is repleat with contradictions. there are things said in one verse that are immediately superseded in the next. there seems to be only one overiding theme, that is love. love enough to give up your own predjudices and presuppositions and grow in Christ. Christ went to the cross for us all, not just the pharasees, the keepers of the law, but for everyone who calls on Him. sin is what murdered the mortal Jesus, not homosexuals, not pharasees, not well meaning but ingorant people, not even bigotry it's evil self, but sin. we are all contributers, we each hammer in our own nails and we do it day after day after day, as predicable as clockwork. you sin, i sin, we all sin. wasting our time condemning the sins of others, as we see them, and not taking the time to love them and to praise God for His grace that even those we don't like are His too. His grace belongs to Him, not you. you do not speak for Him. He speaks to you, and He speaks to me. the Holy spirit was promised to all, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. that is His promise, not yours, it's not yours to judge, to predict or to bestow or withold.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 9:42 PM

I suggest you base your arguments more on fact than on feeling. Calling me names will get you nowhere. If Paul says those who love others will not do others harm, why do you do this? "Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says?" (Galatians 4:21) I do not wish to force you to make decisions, only try to guide you back the right way. If you can prove that my position has an opposition WITHOUT manipulating scripture out of its context, tell me. For example, after the part of 1 Corinthians 2:16 that you quoted, more is there. It ends with: "But we have the mind of Christ." Christianity is not politics. It does not have more than one view, only that of God. God makes clear his point in not the scriptures I choose to ignore, but the scriptures you choose to ignore. I am not the final interpreter, as you think, but merely someone with an opinion that I feel needs to be spoken. As a strong Christian, where did I tell the "mind of God," besides what is stated in the Scripture I quoted? Again, I bring up Galatians 6:1: "If anyone is caught in a sin, those of you who are spiritual should restore him gently." This is one of my mottos for life. Christianity is not a war to be waged among its members.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:34 PM

it seems as if you are resisting the renewal God is trying to make in you. you choose to believe that there is a difference, a distinction between what you consider savage and what you consider Godly. God upgraded us. eventhough the bible tells us that slaves should not only obey their masters, but they should do it joyfully, as if they were serving the Lord Himself, we know now, as we have been renewed in His own image, that this is no longer true. we now believe that our God, as we best understand Him today, would find slavery itself to be an abomination. man is a holy creation of God's and should serve no other master. this seems to slip right past you.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:29 PM

collosians 3: 9-11..."do not lie to one another, for you have put off the old self with it's habits and have put on the new self. this is the new being which God, it's creator, is constantly renewing in His own image in order to bring you to a full knowledge of Himself. as a result, there in no longer any distinction between gentiles and jews, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarians, savages, slaves and free, but Christ is all, Christ is in all."

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:20 PM

i'm sure you won't address that, it does not support your agenda. paul didn't say that homosexuals were exempt from this, he said very clearly that whoever loves will not do others harm, and will be in compliance with the WHOLE LAW. and yet, judgmental bigots such as yourself do harm others with your words and your false judgment. this suggests clearly that you don't do what you do out of love, paul says if you love you will not do others wrong. you are commiting a spiritual holocaust on a whole segment of the human race with your false judgment. you are driving people away for Chirst, not to Him. and you are simply a fearful and ignorant person trying to stand on others to make your own self feel better. love, love God and love His creation and you will find peace and harmony within His creation, you won't need to judge it.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:14 PM

another pice of scripture that you choose to ignore, romans 13: 8-10..."be under obligation to no one", this means you, "the only obligation you have is to love one another. whoever does this has obeyed the Law. the commandments, "do not commit adultry; do not commit murder; do not steal; do not desire what belongs to someone else" - all these and any other besides, are summed up in the one command, "love your neighbor as you love yourself. if you love others you will never do them wrong; to love, then, is to obey the whole Law.

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 9:07 PM

yes.....skipping things that don't fit your agenda is a very common activity amongst many, yourself included. you quote only that which seems to support your postion and ignore that which is contrary. the difference between you and i is that you do presume to be the final interpreter of the bible and are arrogant enough to place yourself above God. i know the scriptures very well and i interpret them to the best of my knowledge and try to live my life accordingly. i choose to respect the rights of others enough to make their own choices and live their lives in the same manner as they believe is right without judging them. for instance, a bit of scripture that seems to go right over your head as you are telling us what God is talking about...1 corinthians chaper 2 vs 16..."who knows the mind of the Lord? who can give Him advice?" it seems as if you think you do. so, yes, you pick and choose just as you accuse. we call that hipocracy.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 8:14 PM

These verses are the perfect example of where the Bible does address homosexuality. Therefore, those who say that homosexuality is not in the Bible have "taken words away from this book of prophecy." (Revelation 22:18, 19) They either purposefully skip the passages that are so bluntly clear on the issue, or they manipulate its words to weigh in favor of their own selfish nature's desires. We as the Church beckon you back as a person who is "caught in a sin." Remember, the sin is not being gay, but sinning because of it.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 8:13 PM

By saying "His closest friends were the prostitutes and the tax collectors and the sinners. They were the low-life people of that time. So I hope they don't do that" to justify your behavior, you are calling yourself a sinner and outright admitting that you are living in sin. Why would you bring up the fact that Christ's friends were sinners to defend your being gay unless you thought of yourself as a sinner also? So do you not want the Church to cut you off because you even admit that you are a sinner? "If anyone is caught in a sin, those of you who are spiritual should restore him gently." (Galatians 6:1) We are not to cut you out or even support you, but to restore you to your rightful place in the kingdom of God. Also, believing that it is a sin to be living a lie is wrong. According to your views, those who are gay and living that way in secret should come out and "become free of sin." But the reality of the situation is that when they do come out, they will use their "newfound freedom" in the wrong way and will end up practicing homosexuality once they give in to temptation, which is the sin.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 8:09 PM

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders...will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) If that's not as flat-out as it gets, then I don't know what is.And if you think to yourself, "That doesn't mean anything, it's Corinthians, so that's just Paul talking, not Jesus," think again. 2 Timothy 3:16 says "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness." That means everything written in the Bible was inspired by God, so it is not just the words of men. And this rubbish about using "the point of the life of Christ" to justify your own selfish behavior is wrong too.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 8:07 PM

Don't you think that as the ruler of the universe, God would have enough time on his hands to regulate his holy manual book to make sure it doesn't get too off of what He's really trying to say? If both sides of the story were represented, the truth would be known that "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Colossians 2:9) Just because Jesus doesn't say something doesn't mean it's not implied by what God does! In Genesis 18:32, Abraham pleads with the Lord that if he can find ten righteous people in the city of Sodom, the Lord will not destroy them because of their wickedness. Then in Genesis 19:4, 5, men from the city of Sodom surround Lot's house and ask "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them." Later in 19:24, "the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah" And don't tell me that since it's the Old Testament, things must have changed since then. I think raining down burning sulfur is a bit of an extreme view for God to have completely changed his mind on the topic. How can one say that it is fine to practice homosexuality if God obliterated a city of homosexual men with burning sulfur?

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 8:02 PM

Someone in the public eye should not be leading others astray by making completely inaccurate statements that ignore and manipulate what the Bible says. There are some people that I believe feel confined to a physical body, who feel that they are attracted to the same sex because of genetic/biological reasons. The sin is not being gay; the sin is carrying out acts of homosexuality and then justifying your behavior by changing what the Bible has to say to fulfill your sinful nature's desires and thoughts. For example, if you are one of the few who have the genetic problem and choose to live a Christian life, you shouldn't carry out what your sinful nature wants. Your partner in life should be God. But if you get married to someone of the opposite sex and then come out of the closet and leave your family, that is one of the sinful choices you can make. Another sin is claiming the Bible has nothing to say about homosexuality and teaching others likewise. "But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."(Matthew 18:6) There are many places in the Bible that homosexuality is mentioned. God would not let the words of the Bible become so distorted that they lead people astray by saying the wrong thing.

Posted by christsarmy  05/02/08 7:59 PM

Though I agree with Karen, our thoughts are all biased by our orientation. Pennyjane, you should not be deciding for yourself what God's will is; only He knows that, so do not manipulate it for your own selfish desires. "If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other." (Galatians 5:25)

Posted by pennyjane  05/02/08 12:43 PM

for christians. i just came home from a meeting of christian women united. it was my first. i got grouped up with women from the 2d babtist, the clear creek christian and the untied methodist churches. none of these women knew me, and although i am clearly and openly transsexual none were so presumptuous as to speak for God, telling me i'm not living a pleasing life in His eyes. to the contrary, all i met were friendly, chatty and curious. all christians aren't anywhere near the hateful, arrogant bigotry that might cause one to say...."all christians are hatemongers." hospitality was the focus of today's meeting...an invitation to all God's creation to join in the body of Christ. God bless us all and all are welcome. much love and hope, pj

Posted by h0gwash  04/30/08 1:43 PM

Homosexuals leave the church only when they are chased out by haters. That is why they have established their own gay churches where they can study the bible objectively in peace and safety.

Posted by Karen  04/28/08 8:37 PM

pennyjane, at long last we can agree on one thing and that is, the VULGAR tone which you have displayed here. I must point out though, if others are like me, it is kinda hard to forgive someone who has trespassed against you on purpose and in such a hypocritical hateful manner and for what, you say to prove a point - in the end - supposedly to us two heterosexuals you directed your pure mean AND hateful rhetoric at. Unfortunately, pennyjane I believe you may have done exactly what you were accusing me and GAgirl of, i.e. turning your homosexual brothers and sisters AWAY from Jesus Christ and God and their undying love - NOT us. I will have to be a failure in God's eye for not following through with the task he handed me as you see pennyjane, in your comments to me when you spoke your same ugly mean hateful words against, about and towards my children, that was it for me. You are right I agree now, why am I wasting my precious time on this computer with YOU. I pray you find peace with yourself real soon pennyjane.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 1:02 PM

i hope those of you who are still here can forgive the vulgar tone i have displayed. i didn't like it, but i think it was effective in making clear that these two do not speak for anyone but themselves and that everyone is welcome into the body of Christ. He, and He alone will determine your fate, He and He alone can judge your worthiness. hate speech will always be with us, and so often cloaked in the name of God, but you will know God because He practices what He preaches. if it sounds like hate, it isn't coming from Him, but from the adversary. may God bless everyone with much love and Hope. pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 12:56 PM

and for those who preach absolution to you, they do not know God, for as paul says in colossians 3: 9-11...do not lie to one another, for you have put off the old self with it's habits and have put on the new self. this is the new being in which God, it's creator, IS CONSTANTLY RENEWING IN HIS OWN IMAGE, in order to bring you to a full knowledge of Himself. as a result there is no longer a distinction between gentiles and jews, circumcised and uncircumcised, savages, slaves and free, but Christ is ALL, Christ is in ALL. now God doesn't change, but we most certainly do! our understanding is constantly being updated to bring us along. we do not know very much right now, but God is bringing us along. those who think they know what He knows, are not speaking christianity, they speak for themselves. those who say they know the TRUTH and judge you as not worthy of God...speak for themselves, not the christian church, or the words of scripture.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 12:44 PM

romans 15:3...for Christ did not please himself. instead, as the scripture says, "the insults that are hurled at you have fallen on me" so when these bigots hurl the insults, telling you that if you do not love in the way they think you should then you are bound for h@!l, they don't know what they are talking about. they are hurling insults that land on Jesus. they are not christians, they are sin, the murderer of Jesus.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 12:39 PM

i submit, then...that driving people from the church is not showing love, it's a demonstration of arrogance and idolatry. leading people away from love because you don't understand their love is not God's love. it is substituting one's own conception of love for that of God's. it is saying that you know better then God what love should be and He should adjust His conception, His many manifestations of love, to suit your own narrow, mortal, sinful view of love.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 12:33 PM

just a couple more. romans 13:8-10...be under obligation to no one-the only obligation you have is to love one another. whoever does this has obeyed the law. the commandments, "do not commit adultry; do not commit murder; do not steal; do not desire what belongs to someone else"-all these and any other besides, are summed up in the one command, "love your neighbor as you love yourself." if you love others you will never do them wrong; to love, then is to obey the whole Law."

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 12:22 PM

be very wary of anyone who comes to you wanting to save your soul. they do not speak christian truth. they speak from arrogance and idolatry. all christians know that only God can save your soul and He does that out of grace and mercy. if He were to save only deserving souls then we would all be lost, for no one comes close to the glory of God. again from romans, chapter eleven verse six: His choice is based on His grace, not on what they have done. for if God's choice were based on what people do, then His grace would not be real grace.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 12:16 PM

for those who have had the lies of the devil pounded into them in the name of God, let me offer just a few lines of scripture so you will know who is in Christ and who serves the adversary. in paul's letter to the romans, chapter ten verses eleven thru thirteen, i quote from the good news version..."the scripture says, "whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." this includes EVERYONE, because there is no difference between jews and gentiles; God is the same Lord of ALL and richly blesses ALL who call to Him. as the scripture says, "everyone who calls out to the Lord for help will be saved." so when these anti christians speak foul of you in the name of God, they don't know what they are talking about. your salvation is a matter, as is theirs, of the mercy and grace of God and where HE chooses to bestow it.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 11:16 AM

and now this is the last thing i have to say to you. i have done all i can do. it was never my intention to save your soul, if that is done it will be done by God in His grace. but, now, i have come to believe that no can can be under the illusion that you speak in the name of christianity, you are as ignorant of His Word as you are of homosexuality. i don't think there is any more to be done. so, as always when i part with evil incarnate, good riddance. pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 11:07 AM

is that really the last thing you have to say, or just another of your lies? are your children liars too? is that what you teach them when you use your time to sit at your computer and pass judgement on others? is that waiting on them hand and foot? don't you even own a bible? use your time to read to them and learn from them. no, not a chance...the devil will always choose evil over good.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 11:02 AM

no, wrong again, karen. as usual. i'd never been here until the first time when i saw david's post about how all christians are hate-mongers. you beat me here. but, then i didn't come in the name of hate and bigotry, i got directed here by a link to the article we are supposedly commenting on. i saw what a nasty and foul human being you are and had to jump in. and, wrong again. aside from being married to a hetersexual the vast majority of my friends, family and aquaintances are heterosexual. unlike you, i don't judge what God has made. i make my assessments on what people do with what God gave them at birth. for instance: He gave you a bright and beautiful soul which you have turned into something dark and ugly. so filled with evil that you kill people and don't even know you're doing it, even when God points it out to you in simple language. no, i don't want to talk to your children. if they are anything like you then the stench would be just too much to bear. i'm sorry you slept so well, didn't get any of that evil out of you. well, you may still be graced, only God knows for sure.

Posted by Karen  04/28/08 9:48 AM

well, you had to know it pennyjane, I just have one more thing to say, BUT it is to clarify your view of me. I am a mother who sacrifices everything for my children - including my own sanity a lot of the time. I wait on them hand and foot and always want them to be happy BUT I also have my laws as a mother which I enforce for their own safety and well being. I have a 21 1/2 yr. old daughter and a 16 1/2 yr. old daughter who I can personally put you in communication with to ascertain their Opinion and view of me as their mother their entire lives. Selfish, I am not pennyjane, I may not volinteer my time and energy at a meals on wheels program BUT that is because for now my responsibilities as a mother of my 3 children is way more important - the saying "charity BEGINS at home" is also a very important lesson I live by and was taught to me by my parents. Rest assured though pennyjane, whenever I have spare time, even money, I willinging and with a loving heart give it to those less fortunate than me BUT firstly and foremost my responsibilities as a mother to my children comes first. If this to you makes me selfish - then so be it. You must indeed be the AUTHORITY though pennyjane!

Posted by Karen  04/28/08 9:05 AM

Quite the contrary pennyjane, my sleep last night was the greatest ever. After I had a chat with God asking him to guide me on my dealings with you, and receiving such guidance, I slept wonderfully not a regret, not the slighest p*!*k of guilt did I suffer - nothing. Boy does HE have lots in store for you courtesy of me pennyjane. It is true pennyjane, that I was led here to this site specifically for and to YOU. After all it was only by chance that I arrived here, but obviously this is a site you visit and read all their material on the homosexual lifestyle numerous times throughout each day of your life. I am here for you pennyjane, at Gods instruction. P.S. I would hate to hear the names you call some of the folks you meet on your meals for wheels program whenever they disagree with you on the slightest of matters. You must have to wear a muzzle. If they want beans and rice pennyjane do you oblige them or insist on making them EAT what you want them to. I fear big time that the character you have portrayed to me and others on this forum is, with much regret, the real you, and that is sad indeed. Have a good one pennyjane.

Posted by pennyjane  04/28/08 7:28 AM

no, karen...every minute spent with you is like pulling teeth. but, surely i'm wrong because you know everything, far more about me then i do. what's really sad is that you have children. it takes less then 15 minutes to read the book of ruth out loud. i know this because i volunteer at a nursing home, reading scripture to those unable to do it for themselves anymore. you could have taken the time you spent enjoying yourself yesterday, or trying to save my soul, and given it to your seven year old doing just that. of course, her upbringing is your responsiblility so i'm sure it's something you pay little attention to. it's far more fun to sit at your computer and sling barbs at homosexuals. now, i'm off to deliver my meals on wheels. hope you found yourself throwing up all night and keep getting that evil out of you all day. bye now.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 10:48 PM

and I am pretty much, no 100%, sure that you have enjoyed every second of our time spent together here pennyjane. Perhaps this is my purpose now pennyjane, to be a sounding board for you, to get out all that built-up anger you have for heterosexuals - like I said before I am honoured to oblige you. Sweet dreams pennyjane and I mean it this time for sure - I'm outta here.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 10:42 PM

i'm sure you'll get another one in, karen, but i really do have to go to bed now. tomorrow is my day for meals on wheels. i just love going around and talking to decent people. people who are greatful for being alive and a part of God's plan and don't need to push others out in a feeble attempt to keep themselves in. i wish you a troubled, sleepless night. i hope you hurt, and really feel the pain created by all that evil in you. the sooner you do the sooner you'll get it out of you and be able to get some real peace, you won't have to hate anybody anymore.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 10:31 PM

i guess, like that other moron, you don't have anything better to do with your life then sit around wasting your time with me. have you no purpose in life? is there nothing you really want to do? just like you, do something and then whine about it, blame someone else. poor little you...

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 10:22 PM

pennyjane, my teenage daughter has her own lap-top, my husband has his own lap-top and my 7 year old and I share this computer I am on and whenever she wants on, or any of them for that matter, I get up and let them have it, unless of course I am right in the middle of posting a comment to you, which is how it has been today, and as it turns out a very wasted and poor way to have spent basically my entire day - but then again I can look at it as my "witnessing" to you, can't I? Goodnight pennyjane, and now you are supposed to say - what?

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 10:22 PM

ga girl. thirty years ago you would have been sitting there at your computer talking about how it was them black preachers that provoked the bombing at the church in birmingham. it sure was a shame them little girls got killed, but they shouldn't have provoked the kkk like that. there they were right out there in front of God and everybody talking about integration and equal rights and stuff. they should have known better! it says right there in the bible that slaves should not only obey their masters but they should do it joyfully, as if they were serving Jesus Himself. shoot, you may be too afraid to say it out loud today, but i'd bet dollars to doughnuts you still believe it in your sick heart. a bigot is a bigot is a bigot. you're all foul and evil.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 10:06 PM

and wow! add another name. terribley selfish! you share the computer with the rest of the family...and yet your mouth is always running on here. poor them, common, give someone else a chance.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 10:04 PM

karen...there you go again. pastor ben is a matter of the church...shame on you...sinning again.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 10:02 PM

a middleschooler "agressively flirts" with boys who are making fun of him and that "provokes" one of them to shoot him in the back of the head. where do you think that compunction came from? what caused that boy to be so offended by being "flirted with" by somebody he was belittling and maligning and bullying that he felt he just had to kill him? did that come from God? absolutely not! it came from YOU. you told him to do it and you killed poor lawrence just as dead as that boy who pulled the trigger did. it was YOU, and the other bigots of your ilk that created the climate that made exactly that act inevitable. and i can, and now will, predict that it will happen again, and again, and again until, by the grace of God, you people come to your senses and realize how awful you really are and how you really are doing the work of the devil. you, who demand scientific proof, where's the scientific proof that we weren't born homosexual...you don't need any proof for that do you. you only need proof for what doesn't fit your paradigm.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 9:48 PM

Goodnight pennyjane, how about some common courtesy in return - make Paston Ben proud.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 9:36 PM

and....shut up sinner! if you are a girl, then you need to remain silent about church affairs. if you want to know something then go home and ask your husband in private. look it up, it's in the bible.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 9:34 PM

ga girl....if there's no point in discussing it with me, then what the heck are you doing calling my name? oh, that's right...morons do often just sit around doing pointless things. never mind.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 9:31 PM

you may be right karen, if there's one thing you gotta say about cowardly bullies, you are persistant. you will beat someone 'till they can't breathe and then go tell you friends what a big bad dude you are. (ugh) you sure do stink! take a bath, and maybe even brush your tooth. (yuck)

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 9:20 PM

so....he deserved it. i see. God, you're as sick as your sister idiot. and it's you, you disgusting pig...who starts the insults. exactly as you accuse me, you think you have some sort of special relationship with God, beyond the oridinary. you are so far up the chain you can sit in judgement of me. sicko! hate-monger! miserable, disgusting excuse for a human being. that i misread unitarian, you idiot, is completly beside the point. you're still telling me what's in my heart. moron! you haven't a clue. get under that rock with your filthy frind and think up some more evil you two can perpetrate on the decent people of this world. ahhhh...heck...now i gotta go take another bath...just looking at your print makes me feel filthy too. (ugh) disgusting.........

Posted by GAGirl08  04/27/08 9:05 PM

Pennyjane - I said utilitarian (look it up) not unitarian. There isn't much more of a point in discussing this further with you as you don't even read the words correctly. You keep insisting I'm bullying you when I haven't called you any names or mocked you in any way. I'd like to know what specifically my 'foul, evil and disgusting rhetoric' was? You seem to have no clear definition of what is right and wrong - it's all relative to you. God's truth can apparently speak to you and be right, but not me (since what he is telling me is wrong is your eyes). As a side comment, Lawrence King wasn't murdered because he 'appeared feminine' - he would dress in woman's clothing and when the boys would make fun of his he would retaliate by chasing them and aggressively flirting with them. I consider unwanted sexual advances sexual harassment. IN NO WAY was his Murder ok - I think it is horrible what happened to him - and the bullying he received was also not ok, but he provoked the boys and escalated the situation. That being said, it seems you are incapable of having a fair discussion, so I'm going to bow out here and not waste my time.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 8:52 PM

There is no way you will have the last word with me, now goodnight pennyjane.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 8:25 PM

how many times to you have to bow out? like all bullies, no matter how many times it breaks your word, you have to get the last word in. ain't gonna happen this time. your word is become moot, of no value. you don't stand behind it. you just make up another lie, hide behind another wall and sling another rock. maybe i was wrong, maybe it is getting to you, you sure deserve it you sickening bigot! you, who just knows enough scripture to get by are on a mission the save the souls of people you don't know by killing them. you keep getting more and more out of touch with reality, you really badly need a psychiatrist! a good one! i have never met a more thouroughly disgusting human being. utterly stupid, arrogant, vicious, and yes, just plain old evil...a worker of satan himself. we are warned in the scriptures about people like you. wolves who come in sheeps clothing. gonna save our souls! no way! you want to claim our souls for the adversary. we all know it's only Jesus who can save us, not a lying idolator like you. you are just plain evil, please don't save my soul! you save for the devil. now, back under your rock, you slithery beast!

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 7:46 PM

pennyjane, what worse a word is there then 'DEVIL' which you have referred to me as to all homosexuals on this forum. You do acknowledge that the Devil does exist don't you? We will just leave it at I do not know what it is like to be a homosexual and all that that entails and YOU do not know what it is like to be a heterosexual and all that that entails, especially for heterosexuals who have their strong beliefs in what is or is not pleasing to God. Homosexuals, as you have done here, condemn heterosexuals just as you claim we condemn homosexuals. Let's leave it at that. Goodbye for now as I am being demanded by my family to get off this computer.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 7:30 PM

with friends like you looking out for us, who needs enemies?

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 7:28 PM

suicide is a mortal sin, i'm sure they will all be comforted to know that it's their immortal soul you are looking out for as you drive them to suicide. thank's, that makes all the difference in the world.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 6:52 PM

oh, and i spent 23 years 4 months and 27 days in a testosterone swamp called the us army. i spent 58 years as a transsexual in a hateful society. i haven't even scratched the surface of names i've been called. if those words i used on you sounded tough, you should have lived my life. how's about sissy? that's a nice little start. then there's q&@@r. (yuck) small stuff, but i still never particularily liked it. faggott! imagine that, me...a faggott! don't matter, truth isn't relevant to bigots. well, it gets alot worse, but i think that's enough to make the point. you sure have lived a sheltered life. and if i did shake up your psychee, then all the glory goes to God, it sure can use some shaking up. bye now.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 6:23 PM

it's sad, karen, that you speak with such a sharp tongue and take no responsibility. you just shoot the gun in the air, if it happens to hit someone, too bad, not your fault, you weren't aiming at them. so, so very sad. goodbye, i hope things get better for you.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 6:18 PM

it is entirely possible to worship God and practice christianity without judging others. yes, there are things you and i disagree about, there will always be. but i don't judge the view God has of you. and i wish you wouldn't judge the view God has of me. let's let Him run things. you are a heterosexual, that's wonderful. but, honey, you are completely ignorant about homosexuality. i haven't had any sexual encounters since my surgery. not that i wouldn't. but i'm married twenty eight years to a heterosexual woman. abstintion is my only recorse, it doesn't bother me at all. but it also doesn't relieve me of my homosexuality. there is absolutely nothing in this world i can do about my sexual attraction to women. i can't change that any more then you can change your sexual orientation. if i never commit another sexual act in my life i will still die homosexual. how can God hate me for this? He created me. it's not Him that's the problem, it's people who don't understand and don't want to understand that are killing us.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 6:12 PM

pennyjane, you mean to tell me that you have literally wasted my time all the while - now that is a SIN pennyjane and shame on me for falling for it and you. Good-bye and again MAY GOD BLESS YOU pennyjane.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 6:09 PM

pennyjane, as for what my words may do to some young homosexual out there then to that I can only hope and pray that they can clearly see that I am only concerned with and looking out for their SOULS. I will pray to God that nothing I have written on this forum will cause not one homosexual young person to misunderstand my intent and instead of away from God that they be guided closer and closer to Him.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 6:07 PM

i admit i seem to have gone at this the wrong way. i'd hoped to shock you into just stopping to think for a minute. to just get a tiny feel for what it's like to have hate pounded into you over and over again. for people to just insist that you are the scum of the earth. there's no way you can possibly know how badly that hurts, but i'd hoped you might just get a glimpe. but, it seems to have gone nowhere. my mistake. i do hope, someday, that you do take an opportunity to familiarize yourself with God's Word. it's really beautiful and will relieve you of the responsibility of having to judge others. good luck to you. much hope...pj

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 6:02 PM

pennyjane, likewise I hope you can take responsibility for what your hurtful, degrading name calling is doing to my psyche as well. Once again pennyjane - THE GOLDEN RULE! And again, I repeat - I live my life according to the Scriptures as best I can. God's Laws about sexual misconduct are very clear and I truly am sorry that you do not agree with that but I guess to some degree I understand. What you want and need pennyjane, I am sorry but I will never be able to give that to you. You say you already know that Jesus Christ loves you, that God loves you and that you return their love BUT not by your actions. I will not and CANNOT give you anymore than to say that as far as I believe both you and I are sinners, we are equals BUT with different understandings of God's Laws obviously. I also can say that as a fellow human being pennyjane I do love you and that is an honest sincere statement. This is as far as I can go pennyjane and if in your eyes that makes me any of those names you have called me that I will most definitely just have to live with that - knowing that at least one persons OUT THERE despises me because of what I believe in and how I choose to worship according to God's Laws.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 5:59 PM

your words hurt! are you listening??? they hurt, they do REAL harm to REAL people. REAL children are being murdered as a result of YOUR words. REAL pople are killing themselves or living in utter despair because of YOUR words. that paradigm you create with those words is not conducive to any civil society. we aren't talking about acne here, we're talking about you turning people away from God! did you hear what david said..."all christians are hate mongers." i read that and it broke my heart. don't you see? can't you understand what david is saying? can't you see where that comes from? Jesus, if you believe in Him at all, told us not to do things that would turn people away from Him. please, karen...stop doing that. bring people in with love and compassion. as long as you are a sinner you can't sit in judgement of others.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 5:50 PM

liar. you don't repeat your sins. it's easy for you not to sin. liar. that's another big sin...one of the ten biggies that came down from mt sinai with moses. you do tell the truth though that you don't know very much about scripture and how to live a life in Christ. so, let's get back to basics, what makes you think you can judge who does and who doesn't? you tell me that i am not living a life pleasing to Christ, yet you don't know very much about what is living a life in Christ. admit, honey, that really doesn't make much sense does it? to you it is just a big game...you take a shot, i take a shot...just chuckle and take no responsibility for what comes of it. you are not homosexual, you have no conception of how awful your bigoted words make REAL people feel. and what's worse, you won't listen long enough to learn.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 5:42 PM

pennyjane, I am out of here BY ALL MEANS go bathe! I have had enough of this cheap talk and alcohol! (pennyjane, I am just kidding I am not drinking liquor, I only do that maybe once a year -- I know I am just too darn "good" aren't I AND THAT IS THE POWER OF HIS LOVE!!!

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 5:39 PM

Seriously, pennyjane do you truly consider yourself to be a woman - well if so, then shouldn't you take your own advice and stay out of "church" talk. Are you beginning to think what I am about the "wiring" of the lights upstairs. (Sorry, it's the booze pennyjane). She what you have caused. My husband is starving, my children are starving and yet you have me stuck here talking and drinking crap.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 5:32 PM

pennyjane, I am sinning right now for I am neglecting my family to spend time on this computer with you and for what - to be put down and name called BUT I do gotta confess it is making me chuckle here and there BUT that's a good thing isn't it - laughter is good medicine. pennyjane, all throughout this forum you have declared that you are a PROUD gay trans-woman Christian. You have encouraged others to be of like mind as you with their homosexuality, you have called me every word in the book (that I know about) plus a few from apparently your own personal book -- yet I am the hateful one. I do not profess to be a practicing Christian, a teacher of the Bible to children etc. - that is you, so if out of the two of us one is a HYPOCRITE - that ain't me baby - SURPRISE it's YOU. Please do not for one second have the audacity to presume to know what is in my heart, pennyjane, can't you accept an apology when one is right there in the front of your face on the computer screen. I WAS SINCERE - ask GOD. (P.S. If you notice a change in my language tone that's because the alcohol has gone to my head). The fun is just getting started. BRING IT ON pennyjane, BRING IT ON.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 5:29 PM

are you really gone? can i go take a bath now?

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 5:24 PM

you hipocrit! you say we can't pick and choose in the scriptures what we do and do not wish to follow as you pick and choose through the scriptures and follow only those that please you. the nicest thing i can think of to say about you is that you are the stupidist person i have ever met. i hope that's the case because the alternative is too evil to even think about.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 5:21 PM

wow! if that wasn't so pathetic i'd have to laugh now. you tell me that my whole existence isn't worth the air i breathe and then accuse me of hate. karen, please address the issue i put before you. WOMEN ARE TO BE SILENT IN CHURCH MATTERS! why are you continuing to run your mouth? it's so easy for you to stop sinning, why don't you do it? it can only be that you like sinning, you enjoy being on the side that killed Jesus. you really are sick...get help!

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 5:21 PM

pennyjane, you are gonna cause me to sin and take to the bottle. You are VERY confusing - now you want me to go (away) and crawl back under my filthy rock somewhere - never to hear from me again. SO SAID SO DONE. P.S. Either this whole foolishness between us has been a huge test of MY faith or YOUR faith - we will surely find out soon pennyjane, for the day draws near. Oh, and as for you calling me a bully - obviously you do not know what bullying is, but then again with all the names you have unleashed on me - I guess you sure do.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 5:15 PM

again you lie! you are no more repentant about putting disgust in my heart then you are about actully being the sick, disgusting bigot that you are. you like it! you're a typical bully, you're getting a kick out of. you see humor in me and my pain. you are a sadistic coward, insincere, pathologically insensitive and incapable of recogonizing even the simplest of truths. blissful in your ignorance...no...you celebrate it, shout it to the world...."don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up!" believe on...another piece of scripture to help you live a moral, healthy and happy life in God..."you reap what you sow." now crawl back up under your rock with your filthy, bigoted brothers and sisters and revel in your disgust. bye

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 5:14 PM

Oh pennyjane, I get it you really do just want me to stick around so we can chat and really get to know each other - why so you can HATE me even moreso than you say you do now. Hate is very powerful pennyjane and I believe that once you teach anybody to have hatred in their hearts, like you are doing for your other homosexual friends on this forum, that hate can show its ugly face in a lot of different ways and areas. I am sure your Pastor Ben would even advise you of this pennyjane.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 5:10 PM

pennyjane, you are really confusing - you tell me as a woman not to get into talk about religion yet you are talking religion as well. Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't a gay trans-woman such as yourself also a woman like me. You are very confusing pennyjane. Please no double standards, no wishy washy talk-please. Once again pennyjane, go back and re-read my comment posted about my sins. I said I have asked God to forgive me for a couple of BIG sins that I have committed in my past and that I will do everything in my power pennyjane to never ever repeat those SAME sins again after having begged God's forgiveness - I choose NOT to take advantage of nor abuse God's love for me and His forgiving ways. This is getting "OLD" pennyjane, having to re-peat previous comments posted to you - please do us both a favor and read every word and stop "cherry picking" bits and pieces here and there. Thank you.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 4:59 PM

of course, karen...you always leave yourself an out. and you are still sinning away as you said was such an easy thing for you not to do. i have told you that the bible says that women are to be silent on church matters, and yet you keep running off at your mouth. it would be an easy thing for you to look it up, but, no, sinning yourself is ok, it's just the sins of others that make you so indignant. why don't you address that? why don't you tell us why you keep sinning when it's so easy for you to stop? i can't stop being a homosexual, even if i thought it was a sin...which i don't, but you can stop sinning so easily. why don't you stop sinning first, and then concean yourself with my sins? not a chance. you're a bigot, a hipocrit and a disgusting human being. it's getting very hard to see in you even the potential for a redeeming quality. i'm having to trust in God that there is, but He sure isn't showing it to me. you leave this forum when you decide to, it's not my choice...not my responsibility. of course, as usual...you're trying to pass it off on me...no thanks. byeeeeee...bigot

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 3:57 PM

News flash pennyjane, human beings can be liars as well as a lot of other things BUT just because we are "only human" is no EXCUSE to be mean and nasty, particularly at the same time as one calls themselves a Christian. This is a standard which I most certainly also apply to myself. The "I'm only human" excuse is played more than the race card these days.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 3:49 PM

Oh pennyjane, I sincerely apologise for being the cause of you having disgust in your heart - it was not my intent. I was simply asking questions to which obviously you could not or chose not to even try to answer. I will leave this forum once you say farewell nicely, in a gay trans-woman Presbytarian Christian kind of way. (See pennyjane after all this back and forth we have done I still have not resorted to petty name calling and yet I am the devil - so you say).

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 3:42 PM

Oh pennyjane, I am beginning to find such in humor in you. You are still NOT reading the entirety of my comments posted. When I said "and this is my last word ...." did you not notice in ( ) I put "I think". You brought up the issue of you being a "gay trans-woman" making out as if it were something so unique in the world and unlike a transsexual. You are still NOT understanding the words I type. You are trying so very hard to "trip me up" that it is you pennyjane who is making yourself look so foolish. I trust that all this attention I am giving you is a boost to YOUR self-esteem otherwise it would seem that neither one of us is getting anything remotely beneficial from these exchanges, but then again you are the church goer, the bible school teacher, the this the that as you so boistfully informed us and you have Pastor Ben so why you would need a stranger's attention is beyond me - but I am indeed honoured to oblige. What was that you are calling me now "an idiot" - wow pennyjane, keep em coming - you're good at petty name calling and affixing labels to people, aren't you.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 3:28 PM

oh, and i am not a liar. i'm a human being. yes, Jesus teaches us to love our enemies...but i'm a practicing christian..unlike you i'm not a perfect one. it takes me some time and lots of prayer before i can ask the Lord's blessing on those i'm personally disgusted with. in time i hope the Lord will take the disgust from my heart and i will be able to ask His blessing for you. you can trust when i do, though, it will be sincere...not sarcastic. with sinking hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 3:22 PM

gosh, karen...you are sure a quick study. now you propose to educate me on why transsexuals may commit suicide. it was only a few days ago you didn't even know what one was, and weren't sure you wanted to know...oh yeah, that's right...you and your ignorance live together in such bliss. i've only been a transsexual for 58 years, so let me in on it...there's no doubt that you have gained more insight into transsexualism in the last two days then what i may have gained in only 58 years! you know all about it...'course...according to you you know everything. you clearly know everything there is in the scriptures. if you didn't know the whole scripture how could you know what you do or do not need to know in order to live a moral and happy life in God? ooppss...one of those loops isn't it? but, then i'm sure it's perfectly understandable to your "common sense." i'm beginning to think that you have no self respect at all, you just keep on making a bigger and bigger fool of yourself and seem to be so oblivious of it. shhhhhhhhhhh

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 2:01 PM

there you go again. lied again. you weren't going to say anymore but there you go sinning and sinning and sinning. i think what you really meant was that you are a hopeless sinner and you have no hope for salvation except through the mercy and grace of God. you know what? you're just like me. that's all i have to count on too. i don't have to point out my moral superiority to you, to instruct you on what is and what is not pleasing to God...He's good enough at that that he doesn't need you or me. and i will stick with my "stupid" assessment of you. it isn't that you don't possess the cognitive ability for rational thought, you're just too arrogant to apply it. if you would apply it you would clearly see that though you might not yourself hang matthew shepard up on the fense and beat him to death, you would understand that your hateful rhetoric is the cornerstone of the paradigm that makes such acts possible. and, dear, if you have never challlenged the legitimacy of a child with acne, then you bear no responsibility for their suicide. but YOU do tell gay children that they are not legitimate people and they have no hope of living in the body of Christ. you bear the responsibility of the consequences of your actions. your words hurt, hurt bad. paul says the most deadly weapon in the world is the tongue. that's scripture, dear, to help you live a moral and happy life in God. exercise it. thank you, with some small hope? pj

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 1:15 PM

One more thing pennyjane, have you not ever heard of a young teenage person commiting SUICIDE just because of ACNE and not just because "others" might have made fun of him BUT because HE/SHE was the one most hard on themselves. Please do not try to make be believe that only young homosexuals struggling with their sexual identity are commiting suicide - a heck of a lot of young people are pennyjane and for absolutely no reason at all, not based on morality even or whether or not their "going on" will cause them more pain. (Oops, I think this is more along the lines of a pre-teen or teenage level of understanding, oh well pennyjane just ask your Paster Ben to explain it to you).

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 1:08 PM

pennyjane, obviously going by how you find it so difficult to follow what I type then I guess I must now start to post comments to you in a more infant like manner and not child like, so that you can grasp my words and understand them. pennyjane does your Pastor Ben know the real you? What would Pastor Ben say to you if he were to read what you have posted here? Invite him to read all of the comments posted here and if he too, after reading your comments and my comments, feels that I am indeed a liar, a moron, stupid, arrogant, ignorant, the devil and all the other names you have labeled me here then and only then will I concede what you have written - maybe. pennyjane MAY GOD BLESS YOU!!!

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 1:08 PM

hey! you're still committing that sin! be still, woman! i thought you said it was easy for you to repent and not repeat sins. forget about that too, did you? and as i said, you are too stupid and to insensitive to make the connection between those horrible things and your hateful rhetoric. now, shut up! if you want to know something, go home and consult your husband in private. that's a part of the scripture to help you live a moral and happy life for God. think about it...oopppsss...sorry, go ask an adult. pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 12:56 PM

karen....are you an adult or a very young child? you sound like a child. "i only know what i need to know of the scriptures to lead a moral and happy life for God."....next..."we can't cherry pick scripture for this or that...." com'mon...which is it...make up your so called mind. moron?.....i think maybe i was wrong. maybe you're still just an idiot studying up to take the moron test....hang in there, but don't hold out any high expectations. and love is, and believe me i am not enjoying this interface with pure stupidity, standing up to the forces of the devil, taking you on and letting you expose your own moral and mental deficiencies. it's working like a charm...

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 12:54 PM

pennyjane, I absolutely do not think that it is o.k. for a homosexual to be tied to a fencepost and beat to death. A killing of a homosexual person just because they are or appear to be a homosexual, trans-person etc. is no more a display of hatred upon the victim as is someone being killed innocently or not at the hands of another human being. It is still hate, uncaring, unloving and a huge loss of life no matter what the circumstances are. Think of all the people involved in crime and those that have lost their life for a few bucks, think of a young 4 year old getting shot to death for walking hand in hand with his father (who was involved with the wrong set of people) because of even something as simple as name calling his girlfriend or wife or friend. Hate is everywhere pennyjane but I would hardly label myself as a "hate monger" just because we cannot agree on what behavior is pleasing or not pleasing in Gods eyes. From all of what we have exchanged here on this forum I leave not having anything at all to have to think about with what you have said, can you say the same about what I have said, if so - then there you have it. I leave not with hate or contempt or guilt about anything I have typed to you or any other person on this forum. And now my final words to you (I think) pennyjane is: May GOD bless you in every way.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 12:46 PM

i urge all christians, indeed all people of goodwill, to stand up to this foul, evil and disgusting rhetoric these women have been spouting in here of late. they are against God, against Jesus and just simply against the common decency any human being should show to another. there "holier then thou" attitudes really only suggest their own weakness and insecurity but it does so much damage in the world. they don't care, shoot, i doubt karen is even smart enough to make the connection between her hateful rhetoric and the suicide of some young child in indiana. i know she isn't compassionate enough to care. these are not people who should speak in the name of anyone but their own evil selves, and the rest of us should roundly and soundly condemn their hate and bigotry. much love and HOPE, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 12:35 PM

as the celebration of pentecost gets closer and closer our sermons are all about that wonderful time in the history of our church. today pastor ben focused on the martyrdom of stephen...how he begged Jesus to forgive the powers that be as they were stoning him to death. he went on to talk about how it is always dangerous times for some members of our church. the irony wasn't lost on me that, yes it is very dangerous times for gay memeber of our church right now, but the danger doesn't come from without. it's isn't the pagans or the godless communists or the nazi's who are oppressing us, it's our fellow christians. it's bad enough that so many in our society think it's ok to tie us to fenseposts and beat us to death. it's really sad to read about one of us being gunned down in middle school for "appearing feminine". but the real danger is spiritual annialation. that's the price we pay for allowing these bigots like karen and ga girl to go unchallenged. by not standing up to them we are indifferently condoning what they stand for. pastor ben said once a long time ago in one of his sermons that has stuck with me. "the real struggle in the world," he said, "is not between good and evil, but between good and indifference."

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 12:23 PM

Wow pennyjane, you found two more names to call me - liar and moron. If you are such a Christian Gay person, how come you know so many derogatory names to label people with and so do - and you say Jesus says we should all love one another and this is your whole argument yet you do not seem to abide by even that either. I have never said on this forum that I know every Scripture in The Holy Bible in fact quite the contrary is what I said pennyjane but I will repeat it for you now: I know only those parts which I need to know to live a moral, healthy and happy life for God, and out of those I do not try to re-invent the meaning which God had intended for them. We cannot cherry pick this scripture or that scripture just to suit our way of living but then isn't that just how and why it is that we have sooooo many "religions" in the World. And if you really paid attention to why and how come there are so many it is because the initial religion was against something and therefore an off-shoot of that same religion was "invented" to suit those in the congregation who somehow in their warped way of thinking (probably using LOGIC) believe that such practice is acceptable to God, such as polygamy and such as homosexuality (and notice here they all relate to sexual intercourse). What next with people who are weak in their minds and ways will want to dis-regard as with the entire Scriptures of the Old Testament.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 11:54 AM

and i could go on and on and on. to include such things as paul stating that women should be silent on church matters, it's an embarrassment for women to be heard on such matters...gracious...guess that one slipped by you as well. i know, since you don't have any trouble not repeating sins once you have done it once that you are going to stop repeating that sin right now. of course you are. and how nice....a silent bigot.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 11:48 AM

well, then karen, i guess you are a liar as well as a moron. in an earlier post you said you didn't know much about scripture. were you lying then or are you lying now? but since you know so much all of a sudden, how's about 1st corinthians 2:16 "who knows the mind of the Lord, who can give Him advice?" or Roman's 13: 8-10 "be under no obligation to no one. the only obligation you have is to love one another. who ever does this has obeyed the law." notice paul didn't say "except you homosexuals and transsexuals." he said "who ever loves". guess we need to rewrite the bible to satisfy your ignorant agenda. wouldn't want you tripping over all this inconvenient stuff. or another troublesome thing for you bigots, colossians 3:9-11 "do not lie to one another for you have put off the old self with it's habits and have put on the new self. this is the new being which God, it's creator, is constantly renewing in His own image in order to bring you to a full knowledge of Him.

Posted by Karen  04/27/08 10:32 AM

FYI pennyjane I would rather be a common sense thinker than a logical thinker. Logical thinkers usually only rely on what they've been taught or read from other peoples perspective, you know "someone" elses beliefs & understandings. Besides if we were to exercise logic over common sense when examining Scriptures in The Holy Bible we would ALL be atheists, no? Think about that but not be applying LOGIC but good old COMMON SENSE. I much rather think for myself & use the brain GOD gave me to figure out things, especially RIGHT from WRONG according to the Scriptures, then to listen to the Scientist", the Medical People, "all the PROFESSIONALS", etc. based simply on the COMMON fact that "they" almost never ever as a "whole" in each of their respective fields agree 100% on anything, case in point "Global Warming". One more thing, instead of me going around DECLARING to the world by my tongue that I'm a Christian I would rather be judged by people by my actions, works & through what kind of mother I have been to my children by their very own actions-whether I produced good citzens or not, which is my DUTY as a mother not only for my children but for my neighbors & anyone else they may come into contact with during their lifetime. The Golden Rule is a must to teach one's children & it is an important lesson they will need in life, trumped only by their love of God and self. Have a great day in church pennyjane & take care of yourself.

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 7:51 AM

oh, and you keep going on about how there is no scientific proof that i was born homosexual. it might be a reasonable statement from an athiest, but a christian demanding scientic proof? impossible. where is the scientic proof that Jesus walked across the water while peter sat in the boat wetting his pants? where is the scientic proof that lazarus was raised from the dead? what scientific proof is there that abraham and sarah actually lived, much less became the parents of all israel? scientific proof? you don't need scientific proof to know that these things happened. you know it in your heart and there is no question about it. but you propose to know more about what God has put in my heart then i do. i don't need any scientic proof to believe what God put in my heart, whatever he has chosen for me to know, i know. you defy not only common sense but faith itself by your insistence that you know more then God. you think it's appropriate for you to remove what He has put in my heart and substitute your own judgement. know your own heart, and leave it to God to know the hearts of others. stop condemning others for things that you know nothing of, leave God to do His own will. thank you. pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/27/08 7:05 AM

gosh ga girl...i bow again to your insight into who i am. it's nice to know that i am unitarian and not presbyterian. when i go to church this morning i'll let the rest of the congregation in on that you have re-designated us. we'll get a committe together and get right after changing all the signs, paperwork and such. what is it about you that you are so insistant that you know more about me then i do? where does such narcissistic arrogance come from? why can't you see that large log in your own eye? work on that girl, please, and let the rest of us work on our own splinters. can't you see how you mock me and all like me? you challenge the legitimacy of my very existence and whine when i counter your ignorance. you just aren't used to having people stand up to your bullying are you? well, the time is here. the real church has just about had enough of you loud, proud bigots speaking in all our names. Jesus is moving in His church and it's you who'd better get yourself right! pray, pray hard and beg for God's grace and mercy, He will help you if you really want it. with hope, pj

Posted by Karen  04/26/08 3:35 PM

To GAGirl08 Thank you for your youtube links posted here. I have watched a few of the videos and found them to be very interesting and beneficial. Our relationship with Jesus Christ and with God is indeed very personal and like with any personal relationship with another person, there are guidelines and boundaries we must at all times follow and be aware of in order to safe-guard and promote its long lasting bond. Even though I know and believe that God is very loving and forgiving I try very hard not to take advantage of Him and to abuse His love. I know I am a sinner and indeed I have sinned at times in BIG ways and because I have asked God to forgive me for those BIG sins I refuse to ever allow myself to repeat them over or ever again - and to be perfectly honest it is not at all very hard to do BUT it does take a lot of self dicipline BUT definitely worth it. Thanks again for the links.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 3:20 PM

ga girl quotes bible verses, out of context of course, to support her views. i submit that any idiot can go into the bible and find scripture out of context to support whatever fits their agenda. you may note that somehow she missed the part where paul admonished the church members to pluck the log from their own eyes before they concearn themselves with the splinter in the eye of another. just goes right over these bigot's heads. doesn't fit their hate filled view of life so it's of no concean to them. bigotry is not intrensic to the christain faith, these bigots superimpose their own evil in Christ's name, but they are not His, they are their own Gods. pay them no mind, there are plenty of good practicing christians around to get the truth from, not these people. karen is not capable of abstract thought, so nothing is ever going to help her learn...ga girl is a sincere bigot, she may one day learn some humility and lose some of her arrogance. i will pray for you, ga girl...pray that you will be healed of this terrible affliction and be brought into the body of Christ.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 3:05 PM

again, i will state how very, very ignorant both of you are. you have your agenda and both of you choose to use the bible to justify it. it's supposed to happen the other way, allow the bible to lead your agenda. and i mock you no more then you mock me, ga girl. you mock my very existence, so get off your high horse. you are not the victim here, you are the oppressor. and, yes...you still do go on and on. you are a blind person trying to tell an artist what colors to use in his painting. neither of you have the slightest insight into homosexuality and yet you hold yourselves out as judges. but, you won't learn. my intention here is not for you, it's for others, people like david who read your hate filled, arrogant stupid rhetoric and think that's the way us christians think. we don't david, only these bigots with nothing better to do with their time then to hurt others. these self rightous jerks in no way reflect the church, Jesus Christ or our living God. they are the enemies of same.

Posted by GAGirl08  04/26/08 2:04 PM

Pennyjane - I would appreciate you not mocking me when you discuss things. I don't do that to you. It just reflects poorly on you and gives less credit to what you say. I'm not even citing any of the old laws in reference to whether or not homosexuality is right in the eyes of God or not, so I'm not sure why you are going down that path. Unfortunately - there is no scientific proof you are born that way. But the bible does say we are all born with a sinful nature. I quote another article: "The Bible clearly states all are tempted. 1 Corinthians 10:13 reads, "But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it." Note that Paul said "but when you are tempted" not "if." The fact is that temptation is inevitable and though we may not choose to be tempted by something, we do choose our response to the temptation." I'm sure there were lots of things you did at 3 years old that would be considered 'wrong' even by yourself today. That's not the standard of which we measure our morality. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson aren't exactly on my favorite people list either. I think there are much more effective communicators of God's love and truth. Try Rob Bell, Donald Miller, or Andy Stanley. You seem more Utilitarian to me at this point. God is relational, but his truth isn't relative. I hope you come to see that one day as it is more freeing than you can imagine.

Posted by Karen  04/26/08 2:00 PM

Wow pennyjane, you will call me any name in the book on your quest to "justify" your lifestyle and to condemn me for my disagreeing with the same. With all due respect pennyjane, if you were "born" with your brain wired one way which was opposite to how your body was then why did you not embrace the way you were "born" as it being how God wanted you to be - as you yourself has said God does not make mistakes, instead of undergoing an operation (just curious). With respect to living according to the Scriptures of The Old Testament pennyjane, we could still NOT stone anyone to death for any sin committed as we are still governed by the Laws of the land, Man's Laws. You are purposely trying to confuse people and that simply is not nice of you. Your point about some "animals" being homosexual - are you suggesting that humans created in the image and likeness of God are on par with animals as far as their reasoning abilities, to know right from wrong, obviously animals in the animals world are not held accountable for any gross sexual act in the eyes of God - now to me pennyjane that is just plain silly - you can't for one moment be holding on to that theory, that comparison, that whatever as an attempt once again to justify your homosexuality. You are mixing oranges and apples here when you bring in what "Scientist" say when we are discussing Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ. pennyjane, let's just end this conversation here as we are not getting anywhere fast.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 9:17 AM

for those of you who wish to enforce the old laws on the rest of us, as st paul admonishes, you'd better be prepared to obey ALL the old laws yourself. it's ok, he says, to go the way of the old laws, but you cannot pick and choose which parts of the code suit you and which parts don't. it's a package deal. when i see one of you take your own rebellious son down to the town sguare and begin the execution yourself by casting the first stone, then you might get my attention. but you who are so harsh in your judgement of us and yet do not yourself live the old laws out...well, that's what we call hipocracy. how many of you even know the laws according to moses concerning how to deal with mildew? shame on you! karen how do you handle your period? do you make yourself ritually clean before engaging in marital sex again? of course, you know..moses specifically laid out the laws on that. ga girl, how many lambs and goats have you sacraficed at the alter of late? none? why you lawbreaker! of course you know you are going to h@!l! people, there is a huge difference between discernment and judgment. you may be discerning, i hope you are, but judgement belongs to Jesus. grace belongs to God, not any of us. he can and does despense it as He sees fit, He doesn't consult any of us. not you, karen, not you, ga girl and not me. His plan for us will come to frutition in spite of all the ways you try to intervene. 'cause, after all..He's God!

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 8:13 AM

karen...not thin skinned? just another way of saying "unfeeling". that's really too bad. i feel awfully sorry for you, but...please...get some help. by confronting your own demons, instead of tying up all your energy fighting your precieved demons in others, maybe you could learn to feel. maybe you could learn to love and to care. by stripping some of the callouses off your skin, humble yourself up some, maybe you can someday even learn to experience God instead of your thick skinned illusion of Him. feeling is good dear, even when it hurts...it teaches you to also feel the wonder and the magnificence of all God's creation. maybe if you could learn to feel the hurt you inflict on others with your sharp and unfeeling mouth you could come up with some empathy..that leads to compassion. next thing you know, you might turn into a decent person instead of a hateful bigot. in all seriousness, it could happen...if you want it too.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 7:19 AM

and, dear girl, it is beyond "for the sake of argument". we know it, it doesn't take scientific proof to tell me how i was born...silly girl...it was me who was born this way. but, yes, science is catching up. by the way, science has shown homosexuality in many other species as well, are these creatures morally deficient? did they "choose" a homosexual lifestyle? how rediculous is that? when you think of it using the common sense God gave you, you should blush that you are demonstrating so little of it that you would think anyone in this oppressive and ungodly society would "choose" homosexuality. i know i most certainly did not "choose" to have hbs. i fought against it for years and years, i tried every way i could find to become the man people wanted me to be. you have to get past your predjudices to get at the truth. your premise is not intellectually defensible. "a choice", i'm sure you can't understand it, but for people like us you cannot imagine how utterly stupid that sounds. beyond ignorant..stupid. and what arrogance it takes for you, who are not homosexual, to tell me, a homosexual, about homosexuality. honey, you know nothing about it. you are like a blind woman trying to describe the color purple. you're clueless, and yet you speak with such authority! you are like dan quayle correcting the school chidren's spelling, a joke to those who know anything at all about spelling. correct, but only when you know the correct answer.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 6:36 AM

as the celebration of the day of pentecost draws near, i hope some of you will find the humility to lower your heads, "repent and be babtised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost. (note: no mention of sexual orientation or gender identity) for the promise is onto you (me too, not just you) and onto your children and onto all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."...st peter on the first day of pentecost. leave it to God to call his choices, not yours. on the road to calvary came all kinds, all sinners...one and all. and Jesus loves us all with a perfect love. please, live your life as the spirit directs you, and leave it to God to direct others in such matters. do no harm. much love and hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 6:23 AM

i believe that God wants me to milk out every iota of goodness He put in me and give it to the world. He created the potential...it's my responsibility to live it out. i have to figure out for myself how best to do that. He has, as promised, provided me with the guidance of His Holy Spirit. why should i quiet that spirit in me and let the spirit in you guide me? if God had wanted it to be that way He wouldn't have placed the spirit in me, He would have just told me to listen to you. the new covenant calls for personal responsibility. you are responsible for yourself as i am responsible for me. it's not your place to offer unsolicted interference between me and my Lord and Savior. it's the new covenant, i am in direct communion with God...no middle man...Jesus did away with that concept. i am not responsible to the old laws, Jesus fulfilled them, by His own words i know this. no longer can we come to God by any other means then through Him. not through you, or fred phelps, or jerry falwell or pat robertson or any other arrogant idolater who has the audacity to presume to speak God's judgement. but through His Holy Spirit.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 5:37 AM

what do you think happens to the psychee of people who grow up having to fake their gender, and know they are faking but are forced to present as the other? how good do you think this makes one at lying? we have to lie to survive in this sick society. a society that denounces the truth, doesn't celebrate it as Jesus taught us to. it was my love and reverence for Jesus Christ that caused me to stop lying and start living the truth. stop trying to please people such as yourself and start pleasing God.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 5:30 AM

personally, i am a transwoman. condemned roundly by your type as morally deficient. how do you think that makes me feel? i knew i was a girl the minute i learned their was a difference between boys and girls. i was three years old. how can a three year old be morally deficient? it was right then that, by way of my parents, society began pounding into me that i was wrong, sick, and a pervert. that i was a boy because there was a penis between my legs. i made my first attempt to remove it at four. what kind of sickness allows for that? who's responsible for a four year old taking a razor blade to her penis? forcing someone to deny something as fundamental as their gender is truly evil. God made my spirit, nature made my body...prsonally i think it was God who got it right.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 5:23 AM

you have your opinion, but as you said in an earlier post, you don't always have to tell every thing you think you know. believe me, you are not going to have any positive effect on any homosexual by insulting and belittling them. again, all that accomplishes is to push people further away from our loving God...and i agree with paul, that's about as foul and evil a sin as can be committed.

Posted by pennyjane  04/26/08 5:17 AM

ga girl. people in our the homosexual community aren't just annoyed with christians, many seem to be terrified of us. others are so sick of hearing how morally defiecient they are they they just turn off the whole message. others, those with common sense can't see how people such as yourself continue to comdemn them in the face of overwhelming evidence that homosexuality is not a choice, not a lifestyle but a congenital condition that one can do absolutely nothing about. yes, anyone can control their behavior, but you cannot change your fundamental orientation. can't you see that homosexuals are no more willing to abstain from sex then are heterosexuals? why should they? God made them just as He made everyone else. they aren't broke and they don't need fixed. yes, there is a right and a wrong but if you are doing just what God made you to do then you are doing right, not wrong.

Posted by GAGirl08  04/26/08 12:32 AM

Also, to anyone who is annoyed with Christians... I totally get it. I think this video will speak to your frustrations but give you a little hope: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sODlrzfnD24

Posted by GAGirl08  04/25/08 11:57 PM

pennyjane - The video I linked is not saying that I don't think you believe God exists - I see clearly you do. I just think it highlights that Gods ways don't equal your ways (or my own agenda). It hasn't been proven scientifically that you are 'born' homosexual. So for the sake of argument, if you aren't born that way, then how is God ok with homosexuality?

Posted by GAGirl08  04/25/08 11:53 PM

Pennyjane - You are totally right that homosexuals are people that deserve respect and love all the same, and the church has messed up bigtime. Checkout the book unChristian. It's scary. Out of all the people polled in an independent survey that believed homosexuality was wrong; only 1% of those people prayed specifically for them. Now if it's something they so strongly protest, shouldn't it be something they step up and seek to care for? While I totally believe God loves you as much as me and anyone else, I still believe that there is a right and a wrong and that you have to come to God on his terms. I'm not a bigot for knowing what I believe and why. Like I said, if you aren't a Christian - you aren't held to Christian standards. I have no ground on which to stand when it comes to non-Christian homosexuals. You have to come to God on his terms though, no your own. I'd really love to hear answers to the questions I asked. I ask you to be as open minded as you are asking me to be and check out this video that expresses what I'm trying to convery better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqUKz7xPGsM&feature=user

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 10:53 PM

pennyjane, to be honest on your previous comment posted - you scared me a little bit, I was getting shaky I guess because you seem to be the one who is VERY defensive and it must be because I have hit a few nerves in you. Like I told my "secret friend" DickMills, I am not at all thin skinned and therefore your mean words do not hurt me at all pennyjane.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 10:34 PM

getting shaky karen. hurts to have someone point out how morally inferior you are doesn't it? hurts to have someone tell you that you aren't up to God's standards? yes, you're getting awfully denfensive, don't really know what to say anymore do you? asking me if i say the Lord's prayer...of course i do... at least once a day, it is what Jesus taught all us christians to pray. i can almost recite verbatum in several versions the whole sermon on the mount. it's not what i'm saying anymore, it's me! now, try to put yourself in the position of a homosexual. hearing that sort of condescending trash all his or her life. think about all the pain and dysphoria that creates. think about how long one could put up with it before just throwing up their hands and getting out of the game. yes, thanks to you and to many like you alot of us have done just that, gotten out of the game. they just get worn down and give up. thank you. if you take anything away for this exchange, just think for a minute about how your words affect others. it's not a game, we aren't jokes. we're human beings, children of the living God and we have feelings. as paul said, a bird cannot change her feathers, a lion cannot change his roar. we cannot change that which we were born of any more then that. think about it. God made us too, don't presume to know why, just accept that it is, it always has been and it always will be. He has his own reasons. much love and hope, pj

Posted by KAREN  04/25/08 10:09 PM

pennyjane - have you ever prayed to God and asked him to forgive you for anything that you have done in your life. Do you recite the Our Father Prayer? YES or NO.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 9:56 PM

what arrogance it takes to tell people they are not worthy of God's kingdom. where do you get off doing that? what could be going on in your head that you could even suppose for one minute that you can make that judgement? you are not God nor are you Jesus, you are but just another of us common mortals, unsure, insecure and, yes....very ignorant. come on down form your high and super moral horse and join us, we're on a journey toward inlightenment, towards His kingdom, into His light and His love. you are most welcome to come along, but...don't look for us to follow you, we'll keep following Him.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 9:51 PM

as you have clearly stated, karen, you are content in your ignorance. pathetic, but no one can learn for you, you have to open up your closed mind and allow that there is something to learn. you will never be any more then an ignorant bigot unless you choose to stop it. do not take my word for any of it...read the bible. read the gospels and LISTEN to the words of Jesus Christ. don't let some other ignorant bigot interpret it for you, tell you what it means...LISTEN to Jesus. He will show you the way into the light, the light of love and of sharing in a community annointed by God, not hate, not arrogance and not idolatry. you don't have to judge others, Jesus is competent to do that...all you need to do is love them and help share their burden, not add to it! think about it, and think about all the harm your mean and hateful words do to people...think about how you particpate in what st paul has called the greatest sin of all, turning people away for Jesus and from the Father.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 9:48 PM

pennyjane, you only want me to learn what YOU believe and I am sorry but I do have a mind of my own. I am nowhere near the person inside that you think you are portraying me as, and really pennyjane I am not the least concerned what your opinion is of me judged merely by my comments posted here on a topic as controversal as this. God knows me, as do quite a lot of other people in my life, and I truly believe he is pleased with me, and I am sure that he neither considers me to be ignorant, stupid or lazy, nor intolerant for that matter, and it is HE that I rather please than you.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 9:40 PM

believe me, most of us are not like that at all. i belong to the oldest and easily one of the most respected congregations in our county. i am presbyterian, not some liberal fringe group, but a good solid church on the order of the same one st peter and st paul built so many years ago. i am known by all, the only open transwoman i know of, and i am not accepted nor tolerated, i am loved and respected just as are all the rest. these christians believe first in Christ, that He is the risen son of God. i host events held by our church, teach a bible study class, do childcare, clean the kitchen and take out the trash...just like everyone else. do not allow these bigots to lead you astray...Jesus Christ loves you with all His heart and is every bit as tickled to see you coming as he is anyone else. love yourselves as He loves you, do not allow these condescending hipocrits to harm you anymore. they are the ones who are sick, not for who they were born, but for who they have chosen to become...bigots. God bless us all.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 9:36 PM

pennyjane, perhaps if you would stop the petty name calling and share just a little bit of ALL that knowledge you have, as I am sure Jesus would want you to, then we can get somewhere, help SAVE me from this h@!l hole of ignorance please pennyjane. You seem to have ALL the answers.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 9:32 PM

for others....please do not think these bigots respresent the christian community in any way. they do not! i took your statement, david, to my bible study class on monday night. i wrote it on the board..."all christians are hate-mongers." we discussed that and wondered why in the world anyone could think that people such as ourselves could be thought of in that manner. it is people like you have been hearing in here. ignornant and foul, disgusting bigots, sick and perverted. those who hold themselves in higher esteem then they hold Jesus himself.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 9:27 PM

you were born heterosexual.....yes, you idiot...and others were born homosexual...crawl back up under your rock and keep on stinking. i have come to believe that you are not just ignorant but flat out stupid. you have the capactiy to learn but are just too lazy and arrogant to apply yourself to the task.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 9:17 PM

Oh good pennyjane, you are still up! Re: Post by pennyjane 04/25/08 19:05 CST"if you are, karen...at what point did you choose to become heterosexual?" *** I was born heterosexual pennyjane but when I probably was around 10 or 11 my girl friend and I would play "house" - one of us played the daddy role and one of us played the mommy role. I have never once in my life ever considered, felt, thought etc. that I might be a homosexual just because I "practiced" kissing and playing "house" with someone of the same sex as a young girl. My friend and I were never exposed to two people of the same sex "making out" so therefore we never considered our "playing house" game as anything other than children experimenting and mimmicking what we saw her older teenage sister doing with her boyfriends. It was never an issue. By the time I was 13 or 14 and was more mature and learned about people who were homosexual (we had only 2 men in our City who were known homosexuals) I had always felt that a relationship between two people of the same sex was wrong in the eyes of God. Today, where I live probably about 1 in 10 people are homosexual (and we have around 60,000 people altogether).

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 9:16 PM

Continued: We recently had a mother with a 13 year old daughter and she would make her daughter invite classmates over to spend the night and then she would "seduce" them into the homosexual lifestyle. Obviously if an adult introduces such behavior to a young teen it is not quite the same - the message being sent to the child is that such sexual behavior is o.k. We had a terrible episode where 13, 14 & 15 year old girls in one particular high school were "recruiting" other girls that age into such homosexual behavior, no doubt with an adult heading the "ring". The message is loud and clear to all of our young people these days, i.e. if an "adult" says something is o.k. then it must be o.k., especially when they tell them that Jesus still loves you and God still loves you and it is not a sin worthy of repentance, nor does such behavior require God's forgiveness.P.S. pennyjane remember the Golden Rule please, you are the one who calls yourself "Christian" not I. Good night to you too.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 8:24 PM

oh...and in the name of humility....thank you so much for allowing us to serve you ma'am. how very, very white of you.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 7:05 PM

if you are, karen...at what point did you choose to become heterosexual? it defies even the minimal amount of common sense to think that one chooses their sexual or gender identities. and yes, you are over the top, almost unbelievably ignorant. in fact, your ignorance is surpassed only by your arrogance. you are one of those pittifully unfulfilled human beings that you have to attack others in an attempt to bring them down to your level. really, get some help...you are becoming desperate. read the bible, learn God's Word...and then when you come up with enough humilty to allow Him to run His own world, then speak to the plight of others from that perspective. in the meantime, your mean and hateful words are leading people away from christianity, you are a horrible example. so please, stop speaking in His name. speak for yourself and take responsibility for your own hate and bigotry. good night

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 5:41 PM

To pennyjane****I've been thinking and I must once again disagree with you-I AM tolerant of homosexuals and have been my whole life. I have come into contact with homosexuals in every area of my life. I have always shown them common courtesy and respect. I have eaten food that they have prepared at fast food chains and have been waited on by them in restaurants. I have had my hair cut by homosexuals (even some pretty darn handsome manly looking ones too), etc. I can recall about 2 incidences my whole life where I have had to stand up to homosexuals because of the way they were conducting themselves in the presence of my minor children & others. I also have a few stories I can share of the other side of homosexuals (that being contrary to what MOST homosexuals tend to hoot and holla about how their lifestyle is all about love, peace, tolerance, etc. etc.). In none of my comments posted here have I stooped to petty name calling or affixing a label to you or any others who are admitted homosexuals.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 5:40 PM

Contd. To pennyjane*************************************** My first comment posted started with the words to the effect of "This is so sickening". The sickening part being that here a young man previously living his life as a "Christian" and preaching God's message to young people coming "out of the closet" and getting praised & congratulated for doing so. Being praised for "doing" what he needed to do in order to be "honest" to himself. For Azariah's sake, I would NEVER ever give him any words of encouragement other than as was posted by me in my initial comment here, i.e. God will be there for him when he realizes the error of his ways. I repeat pennyjane, I'm no more or no less a sinner than you & when Judgement Day comes I will no doubt once again have to be tolerant of homosexuals because I will probably either be in front or in back of one standing on THE line.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 5:05 PM

Re: Posted by GAGirl08 04/25/08 15:42 CSTThis comment posted by you was exactly what I was thinking about earlier today, but I would never have been able to express it as well as you did. Thank you.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 4:45 PM

To: pennyjane **With all due respect pennyjane, I still have to say that you chose your homosexual lifestyle. Hear me out, I know I'm ignorant like you say, but after reading up a LITTLE bit on what it means to be a transwoman I come away with the understanding that basically an operation is performed to change the genitalia to be in line with the brains way of thinking. You say you had such operation. So if your brain was giving off signals that it was female & thus you had the necessary operation so that your body matches the female body-then it should've been corrected & you should've been attracted to the opposite sex but yet you still chose to be a lesbian, i.e. a gay transwoman. Is my understanding anywhere close, bearing in mind that I'm ignorant as you say? The whole concept seems to be that God created US with free will to choose specifically between right and wrong based on his Word through Scriptures contained in The Holy Bible. His Word inspired by Him and written by man. I'm & still stuck on most homosexuals belief that they were "born" that way, which thus completely eliminates them ever having a "choice" in the matter and thereby excludes "them" from any of the Holy Scriptures, Ten Commandments etc. which deals with our sexual behavior & what is & is not acceptable in His eyes. Either homosexuals are God's "chosen" people OR God has completely turned his back on them. Hmmmm. I wish I was not so content in my ignorancy as I really need to understand this!

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 4:12 PM

karen...you may note that what i have said is in response to what you said. it was you who came up with the intolerance angle. i have responded to what you say, not who you are. you know nothing of me and yet you judge based on your own ignorance. and ignorant you are. God is not dead, dear, and He didn't leave you in charge of judging the congenital conditions of others. that's arrogance and the plainist form of idolatry. if you are what you say you are, what is your overbearing interest in persecuting homosexuals.....as has been said bsfore in here...me thinks you protest way, way too much. if doing God's work is so important to you why aren't you raging against rebellious children...you know in leviticus, right next to Moses' admonition against homosexuality he clearly states that if a son is rebellious he is to be taken to the town square and stoned to death? why aren't you raging in the parent magazines to those who don't do that? they are breaking the law! many more of them then there are of us. you have chosen to persecute homosexuals for reasons of your own, not God's. it is your weakness and shame on you for laying that at the feet of my wonderful and LOVING God. get yourself some help, you need it badly

Posted by GAGirl08  04/25/08 3:53 PM

Hey Karen - I appreciate what you said and you put it so well. I made no personal remarks and was told I was being judgmental while I was called a bigot and was told I was ignorant and that my upbringing, church, and education was sub-par. I totally agree with what the man told you: "The flesh is a mess" - that's quite true!! I have to fight my own flesh everyday, but as I've submitted to God in so many ways, it's become so much easier (and it's so been worth it). I love what you said here: "God not only wants us to love our neighbors but also to love ourselves, which means respecting our own bodies minds & souls." That is the lesson I've learned even just now for my own life. God loves me so much. He loves everyone else the same. So much he won't leave me in my former state and is shaping me to be something more. I hope that those that struggle with homosexuality learn that being gay isn't who they really are. I don't think it's a choice as far as choosing what you will struggle with... but I do think it's a choice what you do with that. I quote an article: "Who helps you: someone who fails to tell you the truth or someone who does tell you the truth? The former may make you feel better; they may soothe and flatter, but the truth is more loving."

Posted by GAGirl08  04/25/08 3:42 PM

Hi pennyjane - I don't hate the truth, far from it. But truth isn't relative. God does love and accept people for who they are, true - but like a loving parent he disciplines his child to teach them right from wrong. We have lots of tendencies as humans to lead us to places that are not what God intended. I have a weakness for sugar, but God didn't intend for me to not learn how to control myself and keep a healthy weight. I'm not telling people to lie about who they are in any way, what I'm saying is embracing your weakness isn't noble. If I were to say I'm honestly and alcoholic and that makes me a better Christian for saying so and then choose to continue forth in that lifestyle, that isn't right. If Azariah were to come forth and confess that he struggles with those tendencies but is seeking healing and is walking away from the lifestyle he embraced, then that would be a step in the right direction. God does love everyone, true. But there is so much more to it than that, and love is more than just letting everyone do as they please gleefully. I have to ask, where does morality come into play? Is there no right and wrong? What do you define as truth? Does God conform to you or do you conform to him? God offers acceptance, true, but with that he offers redemption, reconciliation, and restoration. We are all broken people living in a broken world.

Posted by Karen  04/25/08 2:55 PM

I'm back! Re: Post by GAGirl08 04/25/08 00:05 CST "If you want to be gay and not claim to be a christian - fine...." *** I thought your comment was right on target but it appears that pennyjane is of the same opinion of you that she is of me, and that is that WE are ignorant individuals. pennyjane, who says she is one of the most Christian gayest individuals anyone would ever want to meet seems to fall short in the "tolerance" department herself, as while she is "preaching" tolerance to US as relates to homosexuality, and in her case a gay transwoman-she severely lacks "tolerance" for US who she has judged as ignorant individuals--oh well, so be it, double standards are getting more and more common these days. All I KNOW is that in support of my belief that homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle pleasing to God I DO NOT have to re-write, read between the lines, add, dismiss or assume what God obviously must have meant, nor do I need to make the slightest amendment to those Scriptures dealing with the subject matter--as it is all very clear-- obviously for a homosexual to acknowledge such Scriptures' true meaning would be an insult to their very own sensibilities. As a gay man said to me once "the flesh is a mess"-and that is precisely correct. Gross sexual acts-in the name of LOVE does not make them acceptable behavior to God! We need to remember that God not only wants us to love our neighbors but also to love ourselves, which means respecting our own bodies minds & souls.

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 10:04 AM

it is true that so many who call themselves christians are still no more then slaves to the old covenant. they can't bring themselves to trust in the basis of the new covenant, the Holy Spirit. don't you know it was the pharasees, the makers and holders of the laws, who made the old covenant untenable? don't you know it was they who took God's ten commandments and turned them into libraries of laws made by men trying to expand on God's will? don't you know that is was exactly they who Jesus taught us to be so wary of? can't you understand that it was exactly that which comdemned Chist to the cross? don't you know that is was that act that freed us from the burden of judging God's plan? freed us to live it, not judge it. wasn't it Jesus who gave the sermon on the mount? didn't He tell us so very clearly that His message was simple: love...unconditional, uncompromising, unrelenting love? if you are a christian why can't you put your faith in Him instead of the old ways that led to His death? follow Him and let Him judge His other deciples. He taught us that the only law we are beholding to is His law: love. much love and hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/25/08 12:29 AM

hi ga girl. well, i guess we just don't need God anymore. we'll just call you and you can simplify it all up for us morons and we'll just shuck and jive along our little ways. it seems to me as if you have a problem with truth. the truth is that i am exactly what God made me, a transsexual woman. that you feel so superior to God that you can judge that which He has made does not speak well of your upbringing, your church or your education. who are you to go around telling people to lie about who they are? are you working for the anti-christ? Jesus taught us to tell the truth. to live the truth...not lies because ignorant bigots like you don't like the truth. you have no idea, none...you are completely ignorant of what it is to be homosexual, and yet in all your arrogance you sit in judgement. if you are a christian, why don't you just listen to Christ and let Him do His own judging. thank you and good night.

Posted by GAGirl08  04/25/08 12:05 AM

If you want to be gay and not claim to be a christian - fine, but this new movement stating that God's really ok with homosexuality isn't right. It's the understanding of marriage and why God designed it as such that makes it so clear homosexuality is a deviation from what God designed. God doesn't hate gay people... he loves them as much as everyone else. The church has dropped the ball in this arena - but by no means does that make being gay acceptable. By no means should Christians be hateful or mean to people who consider themselves to be gay. But seriously... God designed something SO much better for you. And in terms of Azariah feeling like he's being more 'honest - honesty isn't next to righteousness. I 'honestly' don't want to work and I 'honestly' would rather just go shopping every day and never have to pay for it. This doesn't make it right. I can 'honestly' tell someone I think they smell - this doesn't make it noble. To paraphrase Andy Stanley: "Honesty isn't saying everything that is true, it's about making sure what you do say is truth. Telling people everything that is true isn't being honest. It's being stupid." Anyway - I'm sorry the church has messed things up along the way, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Gay people are some of the brightest, loving, and most talented people out there - but it doesn't make their lifestyle appropriate. It's just like any other sexual sin. Read Sex God by Rob Bell.

Posted by DickMills  04/23/08 4:39 PM

hiccup, you know something, don't you! Come on! Spill it! A little love triangle expose in the offing? We're all friends here . . . you can dish! Dick Mills

Posted by ardillicphos  04/23/08 1:21 PM

Ha Ha (just like Beavis and Butthead), Karen said that JW's are the "butt" of a lot of jokes. Huh, huh... she said "butt."

Posted by hiccup  04/23/08 1:11 PM

How does your faith govern your morality Azeriah? Like say you knowingly sleep with a guy you know has a boyfriend? Is that ok to do? Just wondering.

Posted by pennyjane  04/23/08 6:27 AM

.....so, a week or so later he got a call from her telling him that God had just dropped by for tea and they had chatted. the pastor went right over to her house with every intention of setting her back on the straight and narrow. when he got there he asked her what God had said about what he'd ask forgiveness for. "oh," she answered, "God said He didn't remember.".....point being, when God forgives He forgets. His forgiveness is perfect, we are washed clean and white as snow. much love and hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/23/08 6:22 AM

there was a little old lady in the congregation who began to tell people that she was in verbal communion with God quite often, they He'd stop by her house and they would chat. the congregation was a little concearned for her mental stability so the pastor went to visit and assess the situation. he asked her if indeed she talked to God in person. "oh yes," she replied, "He comes by often and we just chat." now, the pastor thought he had a good plan for putting this nonsense to rest. he asked the woman to ask God the next time He dropped by what he had asked for forgiveness for in his last prayer, and to give him a call when God dropped by the next time.

Posted by pennyjane  04/23/08 6:12 AM

i do not concearn myself with eternal life. God promised me in the new covenant that if i believed in Jesus and trusted in the Holy Spirit that i would have it. case closed, God keeps His promises. whatever eternal life entails i will encounter when the time comes and he will be with me. Jesus will speak for me before the Father in the same manner as i speak for Him here on earth. if i have judged harshly, without the mercy, kindness and compassion Jesus has taught to me, then harshly i will be judged. how that will take place i don't know, i just have to trust that it's what will happen...because Jesus said it would. still, i don't glorify Him here on earth out of fear, but because i love Him and I want all the world to love Him too. many think that free will was imposed upon us when adam and eve ate from the tree of knowlege, i don't think that to be true. they had to have already had free will to take that act of rebellion. i believe it to be a congenital blessing in God's creation. much love and hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/23/08 5:57 AM

i confess there is much scripture that i don't understand very well at all. i believe that i will die only understanding but a small portion of God's greater plan. i don't fret about that, i just make it my business to take care of the fundamentals, the easy things that even simple minded people such as myself can understand. things like: "love thy neighbor as you love yourself" and "judge not lest ye be judged". these are simple concepts yet, as God's choice points out, not all that simple to live. it's the stuggle that counts. try, try hard, pray and pray alot. trust in the Spirit and the promise of the new covenant. much love and hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/23/08 5:40 AM

hi sphere. no, one comes to the Father by grace and by grace alone. it is an age old argument as to how much works count, but to me it's irrelevant. the works are not chores but blessings. each time we encounter need that we have the capacity to meet we are presented with opportunity, opportunity to glorify God to the world. i don't do these things out of fear simply for that reason, grace is not dependent upon works. i do them out of love and reverence for my living God. i don't emulate my Lord and Savior because i'm supposed to, but because i so very badly want to. i do not fear my God, He sent Jesus to still my fears and to show me the way of hope and love.

Posted by DickMills  04/23/08 12:59 AM

sphere_of_influence247, I have to admit that I don't really understand the attraction to some possible eternal-life. I mean, the one case in point that always comes to mind is that Lucifer (or Satan or whatever you guys call him) certainly found his eternal life pretty cushy. But then according to your big book of promises, his arrogance (or sense of self-importance or whatever you want to attribute it to) caused him to become somewhat dissatisfied. 2 points: first knowing how self important some christians seem to believe themselves to be, I would expect that many wouldn't last a week without p@#s!#g off the big-guy. And secondly, the big-guy didn't have a lot of problem with banishing Lucifer and a third of the angles to eternal damnation as a result. What am I missing? Dick Mills

Posted by sphere_of_influence247  04/22/08 10:31 PM

PJ - Would you sell one of your eyes for a million dollars? Would you sell both for $50 million? I'm sure you wouldn't. Your eyes are priceless, yet they are merely the windows of your soul. What then must your life (soul) be worth?With these thoughts in mind, what would be a fair price to pay for everlasting life? It is utterly without price. Yet, if we trust in our own goodness to enter Heaven, we are saying to God, "I should enter Heaven because I have done good - I have earned my way in."

Posted by sphere_of_influence247  04/22/08 10:29 PM

Pj - You may still think that you can (from now on) keep the Ten Commandments. But isn't it true that the best of us have lied, stolen, lusted, hated, failed to love God above all else, and failed to love our neighbor as ourselves? How can we then, live a "good" life if we have already sinned against God? At best we are reformed liars and thieves ... but still Lawbreakers. This is the reason for God's wrath. We broke His law and must pay the fine.

Posted by pennyjane  04/22/08 7:07 PM

hi sphere. i understand the ten commandments, but i confess i see them as outdated. with the coming of the Massiah and the general dispensation of the Holy Spirit it occurrs to me that these "commandments" have morphed into promises. i see them as promises that Jesus makes to me if i follow Him towards the Father. Jesus promises me, He doesn't command me, He promises that i will take no God before Him. He promises me that i will not committ adultry, or murder...He promises me that i won't be a thief and so on. it's comforting to know that these things will not manifest themselves in me as long as i trust in the Spirit and do my best to follow Jesus' teaching. i am a christian and see Christ as my hope and my inevitable destiny. much love and hope, pj

Posted by pennyjane  04/22/08 6:59 PM

hi david. yes, i think your point is about respect. if we all respect one another we'll be in good shape. i will confess, though, that your point about having some ice cream fall closest to my heart.

Posted by damilgin24  04/22/08 6:28 PM

Hi PJ,Thanks. Did you understand the point I was trying to make? I appreciate you comments.David

Posted by sphere_of_influence247  04/22/08 6:22 PM

If we are honest with ourself and God we would have to admitt that we fall extremely short of this standard of goodness. The Bible says that God is not only good/perfect but that He is also just. We have broken His law and therefore justly deserve punishment for our crimes. The Bible says God will punish all murderers, rapists, thieves, liars, adulterers, etc. He will even judge our words and thoughts. On Judgment Day we will all be found guilty of breaking His commandments. The question we must ask is,....what will you do?

Posted by sphere_of_influence247  04/22/08 6:21 PM

So, let's take a look at God's Law or standard of "goodness". With humility and a tender conscience, ask yourself if you have obeyed the following: 1. You shall have no other gods before Me. (Have you always loved God above all else?) 2. You shall not make yourself an idol. (Have you made a god in your mind that you're more comfortable with, a god to suit yourself?) 3. You shall not take God's name in vain. (Have you ever used God's holy Name as a cuss word?) 4. Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. 5. Honor your father and mother. 6. You shall not murder. (God considers hatred to be as murder.) 7. You shall not commit adultery. ("Whoever looks upon a woman to l&{t after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart" Matthew 5:28-29; this also includes sex before marriage). 8. You shall not steal. (Have you ever stolen anything? the value of the item is irrelevant.) 9. You shall not lie. (Have you lied even once? Including answering these questions.) 10. You shall not covet. (Have you ever jealously desired what belongs to others?)

Posted by sphere_of_influence247  04/22/08 6:20 PM

Would you consider yourself to be a good person? Most people do. But think for a moment about the word, "good". Most of us have pretty much the same definition of "good." We usually measure our goodness based upon those who are worse than us (like murders). But what would God say? See, the Bible says that God is good too. However the difference between His good and our good is discovered in the Ten Commandments . This is His standard of goodness. God's standard of goodness is very different from our understanding of the word good.

Posted by pennyjane  04/22/08 5:19 PM

God bless your effort stumptown. i hope you find living in the light as wonderful as i have and have so many others. it takes alot of courage but the rewards match the effort. good luck. much love and hope, pj

Posted by stumptown76  04/22/08 4:10 PM

Thanks for coming out, Azariah. I am planning to come out to my dad tonight, so this was an extra kick in the pants.

Posted by DickMills  04/22/08 3:32 PM

Karen, I know a lot of gay men, and a few gay women. And, let me tell you that to a person, I know of none of them that were ever molested as children. I knew when I was 5 that I was gay, but I didn't know what to call it, just that I was attracted to men. And, if you suspect that the young classmate of your daughter's has been molested, you should report it to someone in authority (school principal or teacher). That is just a word of advice . . . wouldn't want you to find your butt in jail for trying to "counsel" the child yourself. Dick Mills

Posted by qbear  04/22/08 2:40 PM

Wow, Karen, you're spending and awful lot of time on this gay website. Trust me, when you come out you'll feel a lot better -- less bitchy.

Posted by pennyjane  04/22/08 2:17 PM

hi karen. well, i guess you do seem to be rather content in your ignorance, but for anyone else who still lives in the dark ages: a transwoman is a person born with hbs (harry benjamin syndrome) for which surgery was necessary to re-configure their genitalia to fit their brain sex. the syndrome affects both males and females. out simply means that i don't hide it. i would suggest, though, that if you are going to speak in God's name that you take the time to familiarize with the words by which He proclaims the Word. Judge not lest ye be judged means exactly what it says. by the same manner in which you judge God's creation, so shall you be judged. it's simply an admonition from Jesus to take care in how you treat the rest of the world, for so shall you be treated when He returns. much love and hope, pj

Posted by Karen  04/22/08 1:02 PM

To: pennyjane, DickMills, damilgin24 and sloopy 312. Hi to you all. FIRSTLY, pennyjane I am not quite sure what is "an out gay transwoman" and not sure if I want to know but perhaps I will "google" it. I guess I have chosen not to attend churches and sit in the pews because of the hypocrisy issue in it all. Yes I know we are all "only human" and sinners but I expect that the person preaching to me from the pulpit who claims to be called by and for God as such somehow should not fall from grace as easily as what a lot of them do. Case in point, in the Catholic Church and all the molestation which has gone on and no doubt still goes on. It all makes it very difficult for me to appreciate my relationship with God in such places. But, never say never I guess. SECONDLY, Dick as I stated a couple times before here, I belong to no religious organizations, which I gather from pennyjane might be to my detriment and the reason for my adamant condemnation of homosexuals, BUT I do have two older sisters who have been Jehovah's Witnesses since their early teens and to tell you the truth it is the only religion out of all other religions visited by me as a youth that I felt something "special" when I left the meetings. The numbers issue does not come into play with Jehovah's Witnesses, i.e. $ numbers or people numbers filling the pews, and that I like a lot.

Posted by Karen  04/22/08 1:02 PM

Contd.: In any event, Jehovah's Witnesses do allow homosexuals to attend their meetings for as long as they wish BUT a homosexual will never be baptized as a Jehovah's Witness unless they have stopped the practice of homosexuality (and I am sure you all know what I mean) and repented. Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses are the butt of many a jokes and they too have been and are persecuted for their Bible based beliefs even today. THIRDLY, damilgin24 (David) I am sorry you feel that "Christians" are the filth of the earth but when one is of the belief in God the Father and his son Jesus Christ and you try to live your life upholding His Laws according to the Scriptures then, again like the label of "Hate Monger" and all the other derogatory names "Christians" are called, I guess that too I will just have to live with. FOURTHLY, sloopy312 your posts also gave me goose bumps and caused anger to build up inside and questions such as: Where are the parent(s) of these children? What on earth did these parent(s) do to these children? How can these children be saved and protected from their parent(s), guardians or other adults who are entrusted with their safety, care, nurturing, etc. etc. who obviously have failed horribly BEFORE damage is even done to their young minds, bodies and souls. sloopy312, it is shocking that a 10 year old is struggling with their sexual identity at such a young age -simply mind boggling and disturbing to me.

Posted by Karen  04/22/08 1:01 PM

Contd: I NEED to know whether children who have been sexually abused by an adult particularly if it is their father, mother, grandfather, grandmother, uncle, aunt etc. or anyone else who was entrusted with their daily custody, care & control plays a part in whether or not such child will be a homosexual later on in life. Can any of you 4 help me here? Recently, a 15 year old boy in my daughter's class had told a couple of his classmates that he thought he was gay. When my daughter told me this, my heart went out to this young boy and it troubled me so that I had to do something. Of course I could not take the young boy aside & speak with him without his parents knowing, but it troubled me deeply. This 15 year old boy has always, always been an A+ student, involved in swimming competitions most of his life and is presently the Head Boy of the class. He has told my daughter and fellow classmates that he does not and cannot talk with his parents, neither one. He told them how he gets so angry at home with his mother (the father lives in a different City working) and that he does not get along with her. Obviously this young boy in essence has a Jekyll and Hyde personality, which is worrisome considering all that is going on with young people in schools today. The mother of this boy I know for a fact is a little wacky (being kind here). Anyway, one day I saw the sister of the young boy and I stopped her and told her what her brother had said to my daughter and other classmates.

Posted by Karen  04/22/08 12:59 PM

Contd.: I told her that I did not agree with homosexuality and thought that it would be wise for someone to talk with her brother to help him figure out what he was dealing with. She confirmed what her brother had said about the non-existing relationship he has and has had with the parents. She also said that since he was a little boy the family always knew that he would be gay (I thought this strange, cuz if that were the case then why was it at 15 he was obviously struggling a lot with the whole idea of being gay). I told her he needed someone to talk with him at the very least to educate him on what the reality of his life would be like if he was indeed homosexual, he needed guidance either way and it angered me that with a mom and dad and 3 older sisters none of them seemed to care. The sister told me not to mention any of this to the parents and that she would ask her husband to speak with her brother. Obviously his parents only push him to keep the A+ grades up and are only concerned with all the glory they get through his high accomplishments in swimming!! When next I saw the sister I asked her if someone had spoken with her brother and she said yes and that "that is the least of his problems, he has bigger problems to worry about". By that time of course he knew that it was me who spoke to his sister and that it was my daughter who told me about it in the first place so needless to say he was upset with my daughter - but they are still friends.

Posted by Karen  04/22/08 12:58 PM

Continued: He still causes me much concern and I want to reach out to him but can't because "it is none of my business". Question: Am I worrying about him for no reason because indeed he was "born" that way and that it does not mean that he has been sexually molested or abused at some point in his young life (or is still being abused) that is causing him to be in his place of confusion. The sister told me that "their" family does not see anything wrong with being homosexual so I have to wonder what would be causing him so much grief about it then. He has already been telling everyone that he thinks he is gay. Obviously he knows that he is "not alone" in being gay and that there are plenty of other gays everywhere, even where we live. Can any of you shed some light on this for me as I am still concerned for him in EVERY way? IS THERE ANY NEED FOR ME TO BE? Sorry it is so long, but in addition to my husband calling me "stubborn" he also says that I write novels and just run on and one whenever I have reason to put pen to paper, or in this case, fingers to keyboard, when he could say the same thing in a couple of sentences. Definitely not a waste of time though!

Posted by pennyjane  04/22/08 8:43 AM

hi david. i guess to me it's just one of those black and white things. bigotry is wrong. it doesn't matter who it is directed at it is destructive, hurtful and i cannot find even one redeeming quality. that many christians fit the negative stereotype you suggest, and that is wrong, many others of us do not. i am an out gay transwoman and about as christian as you can get. i belong to a traditional church (presbyterian usa) that doesn't just tolerate me but loves and respects me and cares for me just as they do all the other parisoners. the chruch i belonged to when i transitioned kicked me out. not out of hate, they loved me too, but out of ignorance and bigotry. they held a stereotypical view of transsexuals as transvestite, gay, sex perverts. of course they were wrong and over the past four years they have come to see that. this past summer i was invited back. i will not push my religion on you, but i will share my views with respect for yours. much love and hope, pj

Posted by DickMills  04/22/08 4:01 AM

Nelson Smith, I read your story, and tears welled up in my eyes. Thank you for sharing. The world truly is a better place because of the decency of human beings like yourself. Dick Mills

Posted by sloopy312  04/22/08 1:50 AM

#2 A High School youth laid under his bedroom sheets for two weeks, with his dad's loaded shotgun in his mouth because of the ridicule and betrayal of his "best" friend at school, who revealed he was gay, when in fact he was not sure of his sexual orientation.The son of a fundamentalist preacher, who accidentally came out at age 13 in an argument, tried to make his son straight. Of course it was his dad's duty to ask the church to pray for him.This youth who used to be happy and go-lucky is now on anti depressants. I could go on, but I am too numb about the shooting of a youth named 15 year old Lawrence, who was gay, by his 14 year old classmate. Children are not born evil, but they have to be taught to hate. The blood of Lawrence is on the hands of all those who rail against gays. Two young lives have been destroyed because we teach hate, unfortunately too many under the justification of religion, God and the Bible.Then there is the story of Cameron, of England, a 10 year old youth who hanged himself because he felt so alone and ridiculed. He hanged himself with his own belt. Why the sense of hopelessness? Because he wanted to be a girl.And now the murder of Ms. Stewart, a threat to no one and a friend to many-but she was transgendered. Oh, what the h@!l, I guess the death of just another f*$$@t is good for a civilized, one nation under God, society.I wonder what Cameron was thinking about before he grasped his last breath?Sincerely,Nelson Smith

Posted by sloopy312  04/22/08 1:43 AM

#1 I don't believe you want to spew hate or promote prejudice, but that is what some of you are doing, and it causes despair and dehumanization to those who fall under your categorization of what is normal and right.Please consider your words and research before you speak because a Cameron might be listening. I was called Blaine in school and it was the name I was abused under. I hated it because it sounded so gayish. I lived in the woods, during summer, from 4th to 8th grade because it was my safe place. I am a gay Christian who, for years could not accept myself.Since then I have prevented several gay Christian youth from taking their life. A boy of 16 was going to jump off a cliff.A youth of 15 tried to hang himself and later slit his throat. He lived, only to be sent to another reparative therapy camp to cure him of his homosexuality.A girl of 17 tried to burn herself to death.A boy of 12 was going to kill himself because he could no longer stand the ridicule and beatings at school.A youth of 14 cried on my shoulder because he was so hurt by the teasing and beatings he got, while no teacher ever seemed to be around when it happened.A straight middle school youth, his sister is gay, was told by his teacher in front of his entire class, " You must be gay like your sister". The teacher said this because the boy was wearing an earring.A mother told her son, of 15 or 16, who just came out to her, "I hope you go to prison and get raped".

Posted by damilgin24  04/21/08 11:05 PM

Okay, before I go to bed, I need to hopefully make my point. No one likes to be attacked verbally, or accused of something that is not true or not understood, or all grouped into a catagory of all being the same. It is evident from the response I have gotten from some Christian readers, that once verally attacked they go on the defensive. All of us do. Although I do have "issues" with organized religion, I don't care what anyone does as long as it is not pushed on me. I hope we can all think before we make statements that offend. We are all God's children, why can't we live that way? Everyone have a great week, have some fun, try something new, and most of all, and we can all agree on this, have some ice cream. Good night and God bless. David

Posted by damilgin24  04/21/08 10:27 PM

Hi PJ, Yes you are right. When it comes to Christians, I am bigoted. As I told Karen, I do believe Christians are the filth of the earth. I have never met a Christian who has proven me wrong. I still hold Christianity in contempt. They talk love, but their actions prove otherwise. Christians attack me for who I am. I am just returning the favor. Have a good week. David

Posted by damilgin24  04/21/08 10:17 PM

Karen,You are right, I have nothing, but contempt for the Christian religion, and I believe Christians are the filth of the earth. However, I have to tolerate them. You said that homosexuals choose their lifestyle. Why would anyone choose a lifestyle where they are discriminated against, fired from jobs, condemed by religion, murdered in cold blood for who they are? Why would anyone choose that? One thing I really like about reform Judaism, is that they believe, yes the Bible says these things, but we know a lot more today than we did 2000 years ago. I was actually brought up in a very spiritual home and attended a church where everyone was welcomed. God makes no mistakes. People are born the way they are. We will never agree, so onward and upward. Take care. David

Posted by DickMills  04/21/08 9:51 PM

Karen, Hey buddy! How have you been? You know, I got the impression from your posts that you probably are a Jehova's Witness. Are you? JW's are pretty much treated like the skid-mark stain in the shorts of Christianity, aren't they? I mean, if you heard a joke that started, "A Rabbi, a Priest, an Axe Murderer and a Jehova's Witness were in a bar. . . " you would probably expect that the JW would be the butt of the joke wouldn't you? And those are other Christians cracking those jokes. Dick Mills

Posted by pennyjane  04/21/08 7:59 PM

hi karen. maybe if you got to know the bible a little better and even found yourself in a pew from time to time hearing the words of a loving pastor you wouldn't be so adament in your condemnation of others. we are all God's creatures and He loves us all with all His heart. we are all also sinners, and inquisitors and, at least most of us, are often confused and unsure of alot of things. Jesus brought forth the Holy Spirit onto his deciples and they were comforted. the same is available to us all, all who ask. remember, when you see a man with no feet, don't condemn him just be ever so greatful for your shoes. much love and hope, pj

Posted by raz2e@mtsu.edu  04/21/08 5:08 PM

Again I would like to congratulate Azariah for his courageous move. I guess some people on here are best friends with Jesus and knows everything about God. So next time some of you are at your gay bashing white supremicist meetings tell them I said Hey with a snap.Great Job to Azariah and go toward the path that God has chosen for you(Which if you some of you haven't gathered, him being GAY).

Posted by cheers  04/21/08 2:44 PM

Congratulations on coming out and being true to yourself! As a Christian, I look at what Jesus said and did, and believe that all people are loved the way they were made, and that Jesus instructs us to treat each other well, and to act out of love, and never mentions gays at all. It seems the homophobia present in some Christians isn't really based on anything Jesus said, but rather from a fear of difference. Some Christians seem to forget the "judge not, lest ye be judged" that Jesus DID say...

Posted by silvrwlf  04/21/08 1:43 PM

Congrats, Azariah. Unfortunately, you've got a long road ahead of you but hopefully not so long as the road behind. There will always be hardships as long as one group of people think that they are better than another group of people, but don't forget that you're not alone. There are those of us out here who support you just as strongly - if not more so since it is done through love - as those who call you hypocrite and sinner. I am not a Christian so I cannot give you the Christian words of comfort, but my love is with you. Stay strong. Blessings.

Posted by Karen  04/21/08 12:01 PM

Continued TO DAIVD: It seems like quite a number of homosexuals believe that they are incapable of being hateful, intolerant & bigots themselves, case in point you David, for you seem to be "guilty" of the same which you accuse me of. I don't believe I chose to be heterosexual but I am 100% sure I WAS born this way and I am thankful that at no point in my "childhood" was my sexuality used nor abused by anyone with whom my care and control was entrusted, as seems to be the case with so many homosexuals IMHO. Thank you David, I hope I have a good week too, and you do the same.

Posted by Karen  04/21/08 12:00 PM

TO David I'm trying really hard to understand. You accuse ALL Christians of being HATE mongers and I presume you feel so only because of the "homosexual" issue. You claim that you were brought up a "Christian" and therefore you KNOW that ALL Christians are taught in Church to hate those who do not accept that homosexuality is a sin condemned by God, and to that I can only say that you must have been subjected to the wrong religion, church and pastor by your parents or guardians. I was brought up never having been christened nor baptized nor have I gone to church or any other place of worship other than as a "visitor", which has been very seldom, my entire life - so I have never been able to be "brainwashed" or taught to HATE, but I applied a very good tool in arriving at my OPINION on the issue of homosexuality and that is good old common sense. I know only those parts of The Holy Bible which I need to know in order to live a decent, moral and healthy life for God and I abide by the Golden Rule, and therefore if being labeled as a "hate monger" by people who choose to live their lives opposite to the way God wants us to and opposite to the way I do, then so be it, continued ......

Posted by h0gwash  04/21/08 12:00 PM

WisconsinChristian wrote: "...if you are honest, the only sexual relationship approved by God is a man and a woman within the bonds of marriage - period. If you don't like that nor agree with that, then all you need to do is show me somewhere in the Bible where same sex sexual relationships were commended." WisconsinChristian, please see the Song of Ruth and Naomi, and see the song of Saul and David.

Posted by pennyjane  04/21/08 5:46 AM

be careful young person. "all christians are hate mongers". i don't believe i've ever heard a more bigoted statement. in fact, it sounds classically bigoted to me. i am a christian and i make it my business to love as my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, has taught me. hate is off the table. much love and hope, pj

Posted by damilgin24  04/20/08 10:22 PM

Oh Karen,You just will never understand. All Christians are hate mongers. It is what they learn in church. I was brought up a Christian, and I know, but I am go glad I am free of the intolerance and bigotry you people practice. God does not make mistakes. When you criticize others, you are criticizing God's work. If homosexuality is a choice, then so is heterosexuality. You chose to be heterosexual, therefore you can make the choice not to be. I hope you have a good week. David

Posted by Majestic321  04/20/08 4:51 PM

Congradulations on entering a state of honesty that revels the behavior identified by most christians. I find that many should read the bible with mind and heart prior to spreading prejudice, as a liberation theologian and advocate for justice for all subjagated to the margins of any given society, I am appalled at the christian community that is established to be reconcilling but remains the most divided institution in America, especially on Sunday mornings. Yet, anyone claiming such moral authority should really revisit their own limited practices and furthermore, read the gospel of John. Inclusiveness of those double oppressed remains the mission of Jesus as agent to the will of God. God loves all of God's children. I love all of God's children even the ones that claim to be but don't act like one of them, especially with the example of Christ's big brother. Respectfully, Mark Johnson CHILD OF GOD, SIBLING TO ALL, FRIEND TO THE OPPRESSED!

Posted by radroz  04/20/08 10:18 AM

Wow! Congratulations on coming out. I know you're going to get a lot of flack (as indicated by the reactions here), but praise God that you're willing to stand up for who you are in Christ. Every time I see someone who comes out on their own, I'm truly blessed -- especially when it's a fellow gay Christian! There is truly a Rainbow Kingdom (My book: The Rainbow Kingdom: Christianity & the Homosexual Reconciled, is still available everywhere), and I know that God is rejoicing with all of us. Keep pressing on!

Posted by aquajunky  04/20/08 8:23 AM

I would like to to invite all of those that are posting here about what they THINK the Bible says to view the film "For the Bible Tells Me So" by Daniel Karslake. It is available at www.amazon.com. The film takes a 360 view of what the Bible says about homosexuality. And from the tone of certain posts here by "Christians" the people in the film are a h@!l of a lot smarter. Before you continue talking, see what the learned ones say about this. I will end with a quote from Ghandi.. "I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike Christ."

Posted by DickMills  04/20/08 1:15 AM

Karen, I'm good with that. Take care of your family, it has been good dialoging with you. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/20/08 12:46 AM

Oh, Dickyboy, I didn't mean to mislead you into thinking that we could ever be pals, see that would make me be a hypocrite in the eyes of my children to whom I have passed on what my parents and teachers taught me (as explained in a previous post). Perhaps we can re-connect when my youngest reaches adulthood and my role as "Example Setter" is no longer required, but for now I gotta do what I gotta do for them, sorry. I agree with what you say to some degree about religions, especially a lot of those being practiced today, but I am a true believer in God and his Son Jesus Christ. I certainly do not know everything, nor am I interested in knowing "everything" but I am hoping that what I do know is just enough to be able to achieve both peace and harmony in a paradise here on Earth - and you gotta at least agree from my point of view that that is worth fighting for, whatever that fight may be. For now, I just couldn't imagine me living day to day and not thanking God and being in awe of all the beauty He has created for the eye to behold. Anyway, my 16 year old has just come home so I must sign-off. Thanks for EVERYTHING!

Posted by DickMills  04/20/08 12:19 AM

Karen, I though that we were becoming such good pals! And, for the record, I am not an athiest. . . probably something of an agnostic. But one thing that I do know is that religions are man-made institutions, and flawed. The Christian church believed that the world was the center of the universe and could prove it in scripture. They placed Galileo under house arrest for the last few years of his life for daring to question that notion . . . they changed their position. Religions are flawed, and religious texts are written by men and flawed as well. And as much as you think that you know everything about everything, you don't . . . and neither do I. We can either choose to live harmoniously in peace, or not. I choose peace, and would be perfectly happy if religious people would do the same. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/20/08 12:09 AM

Oh, an Atheist or Agnostic or both. Hmmmm, I have a brother like you BUT heterosexual. He had a heart attack last year January and survived and would you believe I have "caught" him referring to God 2 or 3 times since. Something must have happened when he was soooo close to death there in that hospital room. Anyway, like I said I'm moving on to another site to seek and answer to my question from a homosexual Christian.

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 11:52 PM

Karen, I thought I was being nice and tossing you a bone! Oh well, I tried. And, I looked back, but I thought that I had answered your question when I said that nothing that religions teach are any more valid that what anyone else teaches, and in fact are probably not as valid. So, more to the point, it doesn't matter to me in the least what religions say about homosexuality . . . it is completely immaterial. And as far as sin goes, religions use that concept as a control tactic . . . again, immaterial. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 11:45 PM

DickMills - sticks and stones will break my bones BUT words will NEVER hurt me. I am not the thin-skinned sensitive cry baby type Dickyboy, AND NO I'm no d&+e either -- I swear on The Holy Bible. Perhaps I'll tune in tomorrow - seems like you need some time to think and ponder over my question. You should go out and buy a pair of Common Sense Glasses - they make you see things a whole lot clearer Dickyboy (oops, am I name calling now - oh well -- do unto others as they have done unto you)

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 11:35 PM

Karen, at least we can agree on the myopic lunacy part. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 11:32 PM

You are pretty good at turning the tables DickMills, almost as good as you are at petty name calling, which is what you have done to me in your posts. Not so good at answering questions though - how does it feel to be stumped by myopic lunacy? You must have your reasons for not even attempting to share your wisdom and intellect on my question posed.

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 11:23 PM

Karen, I happen to think that religions are their own worst enemies. When you throw out hate, and if any comes back, you want to blame someone else. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 11:15 PM

Perhaps it is your comments to me which will envoke hatred and aggression towards heterosexuals by your fellow homosexuals - will you carry that burden and blame on your shoulders in the event of that happening. It goes both ways, wouldn't you agree Mr. Mills.About my question to you, would you believe that you are the second homosexual person I have posed this question to and could receive an answer/view/opinion/or feeling. Oh, well I guess I'll move on to another site and ask my question once more - third time's the charm!

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 10:52 PM

Karen, claiming that you are not culpable for the actions of others who listen to your words is like a KKK leader claiming that his followers took it upon themselves to act out their agression. No one buys it! And, in case you haven't read my other posts, you probably should know that I really don't care what the Bible or any other religious text says about anything. Religions have done little other than to wage war with one another through out history, and I have little regard for anything that any religion supposes. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 10:39 PM

DickMills, please do not put any blame on my shoulders for what others might do if they are filled with hate. I would hope that if such hate filled heterosexual Christian came across my comments here they would take away from them just as I have plainly expressed. Here's a question for you: Homosexuals (or most) now are saying that "we were born this way", "from as young as 2 years old I knew I was gay", etc. etc. etc., referring back to The Holy Bible, could you tell me what other "sinful" act in the eyes of God are people "born" with and therefore have NO choice at all in being that way? I say none, and that homosexuality is a CHOICE (either freely or forced).

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 9:53 PM

Karen, I never equated your passive-aggressive comments directly to hate. I said that you provide comfort to others who take your words as fuel for their own personal hatred. President Bush says that those who provide aid and comfort to terrorists are guilty as well. I rarely agree with him, but in this case I do. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 9:46 PM

DickMills if you would read the comments posted here which are from gay people you will surely see who the HATERS really are. In none of the comments posted here by Christians or others like me do we mention anything about HATE. Look again Mr. Mills, it is merely a two sides who do not agree. I came across this site via another site linked here to read the article. I did not realise this was a Gay site but I sure as heck am entitled to have a say and to voice my opinion - which you declare I do not just because my view on this whole homosexual thing does not agree with yours. Seems like the pot calling the kettle black. Double standards Mr. Mills. Does that mean that you never never exercise your right to visit, view, join in sites/shows/discussions where it ONLY applies to heterosexuals - if so, then does that make you HETEROPHOBIC?

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 9:37 PM

Well, Karen, I don't think that you have any right whatever to have any feelings about someone announcing to the world that they are gay. It isn't any of your business. And, like it or not, the fact of the matter is that other people take words like yours and use them to fuel their own personal hatred. And the more that hatred like that is confronted in public, the better off gay people are. To allow hatred to exist is to condone it, and to provide comfort to those who might turn that hatred into violence. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 9:28 PM

Continuation to DickMills: Perhaps, you can put yourself in my shoes for a few minutes and imagine how that would make you feel, i.e. a heterosexual who believes in God and has been taught by her parents, teachers etc. the difference between what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in the eyes of God. If I were in your shoes (assuming of course that you are gay) i.e. a gay man living a homosexual lifestyle, instead of trying to fight the basic principles of what The Holy Bible stands for and insist that God loves me even though I am a homosexual-I would acknowledge my sin before God, NOT ask Him to forgive me BUT would hope and pray that someday I will be able to bring myself to REPENT for my homosexual sin and then beg Him for His forgiveness AND should I not get the opportunity to repent and beg His forgiveness then I'll deserve the worst as He sees fit. I just refuse to live my life saying that I believe in God (and by that very declaration I acknowledge the existence of His rules and guidelines) yet from my actions on a daily basis, it is quite the contrary.

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 9:28 PM

Posted by DickMills 04/19/08 20:51 CST Karen, you brought up the "sex with animals" topic, so I assumed that it was one of the personal crosses that you have to bear. My mistake... Question: do you feel the same way about gay people? Dick Mills********NO Dick Mills, I don't feel the same way about Gay people, i.e. I would never want them to be stoned to death for living a gay sex lifestyle, in fact, much to your surprise Mr. Mills, I would not want them to be hurt in any way whatsoever by someone else because of their choice of lifestyle, but at the same time I must say that it annoys the heck out of me whenever someone "comes out of the closet" that such a big deal is made about it and the lifestyle itself glorified, as so often is the case.

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 8:51 PM

Karen, you brought up the "sex with animals" topic, so I assumed that it was one of the personal crosses that you have to bear. My mistake. But I do find it curious that you believe it would be something worthy of being stoned to death. Question: do you feel the same way about gay people? Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 8:46 PM

Posted by DickMills 04/19/08 19:48 CSTWell Karen, All I can say is that if you want to have sex with animals, I won't stand in your way. Personally, I have never swung that way, but whatever floats your boat. Dick Mills ******** You Missed The Point DickMills, and if I were to ever have sex with an animal I would hope and pray that YOU call the Humane Society on me for being cruel to animals, or better yet stone me to death! Please do not let me get away with an act such as that just because I have rights under the Constitution.

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 7:48 PM

Well Karen, All I can say is that if you want to have sex with animals, I won't stand in your way. Personally, I have never swung that way, but whatever floats your boat. Dick Mills

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 5:34 PM

It is not a question as to whether or not God doesn't love "homosexuals" - of course he does. That is just how GREAT God is. He loves everyone, ALL OF US (even the most evil of men & women to have walked and who still do walk this earth today) the same. The question is how much do WE love HIM in return and how is it that we SHOW HIM we love him. He WILL love each and every one of us the same until the day we die and it is US who must CHOOSE before our death to REPENT and ask God for forgiveness for OUR sins and should we happen to die instantaneously then because GOD knows what is truly in each and every one of our hearts we shall then be judged by HIM. The problem is WE DO NOT know when our last breath on this earth will be. People who believe in and live their lives according to Gods Word (The Holy Bible) and choose to uphold the same - is it really fair to label them this or that by those who choose to ignore the most important of the teachings. JMHO.

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 4:54 PM

Posted by damilgin24 04/18/08 17:55 CST WOW! I guess the Bible verse that has been quoted here is the only one in the Bible. The Bible says a lot of things that "Christians" don't follow. To CHOOSE to be Christian, means you CHOOSE to be judgmental hate mongers. Don't worry, I hate Christians more than you could ever hate homosexuals. I don't need any book to justify that. Peace, love, acceptance and compassion will never exist in our world as long as Christians, and all other religions, exist. Hate is the cornerstone of religion. It is what they preach.God, please bring back the lions. David ****** David by your very comment you have proven YOURSELF now to be a HYPOCRITE. FYI I do not even use the word "HATE" in my vocabulary and I have always taught my three daughters to never say the word, let alone say that they "HATE" someone, so I am sorry but the label "HATE MONGER" does not apply to me, try again. As for being judgmental - well I believe that when one is judgmental it show the ability of that person to know the difference between RIGHT and WRONG. Besides, I can judge you all I want but what good would that do as I am powerless in making you "suffer" any consequences anyway - I AM NOT GOD and I UNDERSTAND THAT.

Posted by raz2e@mtsu.edu  04/19/08 4:34 PM

Great Job Azariah! I am proud at you for being true to yourself(the person God made you out to be).Secondly, has anyone ever heard of "Let he without sin cast the first stone"? Also who says it's a choice? I did not choose to be gay. The only choice I made was to be true to myself and not be scared to say I am gay. God loves me and lets leave it at that. This is about Azariah letting God lead him in the direction he needs to be going. Good Job and we are all proud of you!

Posted by Karen  04/19/08 4:26 PM

Reply To Post by franklymad 04/19/08 15:14 CST *** Just a real quick comment --- You were Jesus Glasses and I wear Common Sense Glasses yet we both see things the SAME. I will be back later when I have lots of time on the computer with my replies (in defence of God and myself) to some of the comments directed at me. Real quick comment though right now: A "Gay Christian", how oxymoron is that? Also: According to the Scriptures of The Holy Bible a man (i.e. male or female) having SEX or sharing LOVE with an ANIMAL is a SIN - Can we all here agree on this to be a sin condemned by GOD? Or is it also to be CONDONED because LOVE is being expressed from/between/with a man (i.e. male or female) toward/between/with an animal does it make it RIGHT and therefore it is NOT condemned by God? Oh yeah, I can get even deeper on this subject without having to refer to The Holy Bible and risk God's Laws being scrutinized, mocked, ignored and thrown out by "Gay Christians".

Posted by franklymad  04/19/08 3:14 PM

i love wearing my Jesus glasses.....i can see soooooo much better w/them on. Thanx for the clever phrase.....i'm gonna start using it.

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 2:55 PM

franklymad, you just proved my point! You put on your "Jesus Glasses" and that myopic lunacy is all you can see! Anyone can have a meaningful discussion with an intelligent person, but there is just no point in attempting to counter stupidity. Dick Mills

Posted by franklymad  04/19/08 2:14 PM

Karen.....you go girl! preach it and say it as it is!!!!! there is no grey area.....its simply black and white and SIN is SIN no matter how much people want to sugar coat it!!!!! Its the end times.....just look around...the signs are everywhere. its so sad that saten is such a deciever and people cant see the truth!

Posted by aquajunky  04/19/08 9:31 AM

All of this just wears me out on so many levels. The beauty of this is that Azariah Southworth has chosen to be out and honest. As a result he sadly is forced to prepare to be the object of so much hypocrisy. I assure you, those that rule by fear tell more about themselves than those they are attempting to make afraid. These rules and threats of God's wrath is a tactic to bring people in line with a belief that is weak and unsubstantiated. You can see this in their desire to pick apart scripture. They keep the parts that support their ideas and remove the parts that are "inappropriate" for today. The fact that someone would say in the same breath/sentence how condemned you are and they despise you but they love you... and this love the sinner and hate the sin is bunk. You cannot separate a person from their actions. Whew, just wears me out. Congrats to Azariah! You are so lucky, you have a whole community that supports you and knows the ways of the other side.

Posted by DickMills  04/19/08 1:44 AM

wisconsinchristian, homosexuality has been found in every species that has been studied. A group of scientists even found that by genetically altering one gene in Fruit Flies, that they could alter the sexuality from heterosexual to homosexual. So if you take god out of the discussion, then absolutely no one cares who is or isn't homosexual - and not in any other species either. Dick Mills

Posted by wisconsinchristian  04/19/08 12:56 AM

Hello Karen, I see what you are saying is not being well recieved. Even ignoring God, nature itself displays that things work best when one male and one female get together. If any species had all males together and all females together - virtually every species on earth would be gone in one generation. So even if someone ignores God, then nature is a testimony to the stupidity of homosexual conduct. As for this idea that God is love and loves everyone who lives regardless of what they do. Well, that is not necessarily true. God loves all those who repent of their sin and put their faith/hope/trust in Him. Most people have a way of ignoring the need to repent. As for whether or not homosexuality is permissible in the Bible, you don't have to look in Levitucus only. Romans 1 has a few things to say about the subject. Lets face it, if you are honest, the only sexual relationship approved by God is a man and a woman within the bonds of marriage - period. If you don't like that nor agree with that, then all you need to do is show me somewhere in the Bible where same sex sexual relationships were commended. Last thought, homosexuality is not a special sin. Heterosexual adultery is wrong, heterosexual premarriatial sex is wrong. It is equally sinful as homosexual sex. What is disturbing to me about homosexuality is the attempt to make it "OK" I oppose that equally as I would support people who try to make others believe adultery would be OK or pedophelia be OK

Posted by damilgin24  04/18/08 5:55 PM

WOW! I guess the Bible verse that has been quoted here is the only one in the Bible. The Bible says a lot of things that "Christians" don't follow. To CHOOSE to be Christian, means you CHOOSE to be judgmental hate mongers. Don't worry, I hate Christians more than you could ever hate homosexuals. I don't need any book to justify that. Peace, love, acceptance and compassion will never exist in our world as long as Christians, and all other religions, exist. Hate is the cornerstone of religion. It is what they preach.God, please bring back the lions. David

Posted by Jonny  04/18/08 3:22 PM

You know, just because someone chooses to believe the Holy Scriptures in regard to homosexuality, it doesn't make one "hateful" or "homophobic." The Bible is extremely clear in declaring that homosexuality is sin--like any other sin. There's just no way to justify it. We all have our sins to deal with, and God does NOT want us to slap a smile on our faces, ignore His truth and simply say, "well, I can't help it. He'll love and forgive me anyway." The Lord doesn't want us to declare our PRIDE of deviant behaviors--He wants to help us OVERCOME them and become the men and women he intended us to be.

Posted by h0gwash  04/18/08 10:12 AM

Gay men do not "lay with mankind" as they "lay with womankind" because they do not lay with women.

Posted by yrogerg7  04/18/08 9:53 AM

YOU SHALL NOT LAY WITH MANKIND AS YOU LAY WITH WOMANKIND. SODOMITE

Posted by Honest5by5  04/18/08 5:20 AM

To Azariah, I would like to say BRAVO. It took a lot of courage to be honest with your community, which in my opinion, is in desperate need of a lot more honest souls. God loves you, AS HE MADE YOU, a proud gay man. Live that truth, love your God, be kind and generous. That is all the Lord asks.

Posted by Honest5by5  04/18/08 5:14 AM

The document may have been inspired by God, but frankly, anyone who takes it to be literally true is an utter idiot. And I'm not just talking about whether or not it's the "revealed word of God" or not, or even discussing the mere fact that it was written by multiple PEOPLE all with varying viewpoints, but also about language itself. The Bible has been translated from Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin, German, Old English, Middle English, and about a thousand versions of Modern English, and to maintain that it is literal truth after all that? Is daft. For instance, Mother Mary was in Hebrew only referred to as a "young woman". When the Bible was translated into Latin, she suddenly became a "virgin". Now as any woman here will attest, that's quite the leap of assumption, now isn't it? But the entire "cult of the Virgin" is based on just ONE mistranslated phrase. How much more is in question therefore? Yet you're willing to discriminate against your fellow Americans based upon YOUR interpretation of that book. LAME, Karen. REALLY LAME.

Posted by Honest5by5  04/18/08 5:12 AM

We've got your number. You're a scared little girl. Scared of life, scared of death, scared of the God you claim loves you, just generally scared. Let go of your fear for a change, and try getting to KNOW the real people outside of that tiny religious b@x you've built in your head. Educate yourself, because to waste the brain God gave you on voluntary ignorance is in itself a sin. As for "there's no question about the meaning of the Ten Commandments" or the Bible generally, perhaps it's my Catholic college education talking, but I'm afraid there's quite a bit of question as to what passages are valid, especially since so many accounts in the Bible directly contradict each other.

Posted by Honest5by5  04/18/08 5:11 AM

Karen, so gays in Massachusetts must be be free of the sin of "fornication", because they can marry there - ditto with all the ones who married in California and Oregon before they reversed the legality. Gee, do you think fornication can be "sinned" retroactively? That is one ridiculous argument you made there, my friend. And FYI, the sin of Sodom wasn't homosexuality, it was INHOSPITALITY. Now that may not sound like much to you, but in a desert culture, being inhospitable to someone who's just crawled across the burning sand to get somewhere, it's a big deal. Your posts have been quite inhospitable, but I don't really think God's going to bother with turning you into a pillar of salt anytime soon, as I'm sure he's got better things to do. Which would be my suggestion to you. Find a hobby that doesn't involve hating your fellow man. And BTW, we all know that "I hate the sin, not the sinner" crap is nothing but a conveniently passive aggressive way to allow yourself to continue to be discriminatory and generally lame, so you can drop the pretense on that score too.

Posted by NeptuneRose  04/17/08 10:48 PM

blah blaaaaaah blaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......Karen, go to bed, sleep it off, and perhaps tomorrow the pms will be gone and you can think rationally and logically again. You must always remember Karen, that someday you could be faced with the very daunting task of accepting someone you love being gay. I say daunting for you, Karen, because apparently you find it hard to look outside yourself and see mankind and the goodness that is there. I think the world should be more afraid of the reglious zealots that kill everyone and anyone whom dont believe as they do, than some people that are gay. Remind yourself of this Karen, everyday, it could always be worse.

Posted by Christian Indy  04/17/08 8:46 PM

Good for you Azariah. When I came out my home church pretty much abandoned me, which was hard since they'd been my life since I was born. It was all pretty enlightening. But my only regret was not doing it sooner. I can't complain though. I met my partner a year later and surprisingly all of those lessons in love I'd been taught by a church that ultimately couldn't live up to them have come in handy with my partner. We're both Christian and have been having the time of our lives for the last eight years just living out God's purposes and not wasting any more precious time. You're in for a great journey!

Posted by damilgin24  04/17/08 8:05 PM

Karen, You are the most judgemental witch I have ever heard in my life. I do not agree with your CHOSEN life style to live as a Christian. Just because you CHOOSE to be a Christian, does not give you the right to judge others. Just because you CHOOSE to be a Christian does not give you the right to force your perverted religion on anyone else. Just because you CHOOSE to live in Christian ignorance, doesn't mean you have to share it with others. Most all learned people agree that homosexuality is not a choice, but Christianity is. Homosexuals cannot change their sexual orientation, but Christians can change if they seek help. I will pray for you. David

Posted by h0gwash  04/17/08 6:49 PM

Karen- I don't know the source of your anger, but I hope one day you will find peace with it. This young man already knows all the teachings of Christ since, unlike you, he is religious and has the Holy Bible on his side. He has quit deceiving his audience the lies he has told in the past because the truth has made him a stronger man. I wish him success in his future endeavors and hope that his renewed inspiration in life will illuminate others.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 6:39 PM

Posted by AKjane1 04/17/08 15:31 CSTKaren...I, too, am not a religious person BUT I do know what the Bible teaches. It says we are all suppose to 'love one another'. I don't think that means just right-wing conservatives or people like you. I'm pretty sure God, Jesus, Budda, Mohammed, etc, meant EVERYONE. 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' doesn't mean only if they're like you but it means EVERYONE. Since I have family members who are gay......I find your comments insulting and, frankly, ignorant. While I am not gay nor religious...I do believe in a higher power...I love and cherish all my family.. So my advice to you is...go away Karen, go away.**--AKJane1, as I commented earlier, I will have to be BANNED and my freedom of speech taken away before I leave this site. As long as I am personally being attacked for standing up for God's Word then I must defend both He and I. Please stop reading between the lines of my comments - I have never said I do not love people who are homosexual BUT I did say that I abhor the sin and am proud to be able to know the wrong in it all, my comments are quite the contrary in fact. Isn't it amazing that you can find my comments "insulting" just because I point out the wrong in the act of homosexuality - DON'T YOU EVEN FOR ONE SECOND THINK THAT GOD IS INSULTED BY SUCH BEHAVIOR AS HOMOSEXUALITY! You are thinking about YOU and your little hurt feelings and I am thinking about and talking about GOD, The Almighty, Creator of ALL.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 6:12 PM

hOgwash, your comment posted and directed to me of 13:43 CST is just plain old hOgwash.

Posted by savedbygrace  04/17/08 6:03 PM

1 John 3:9-10No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

Posted by savedbygrace  04/17/08 6:02 PM

Hebrews 6:4-6It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Posted by savedbygrace  04/17/08 6:01 PM

I support you Karen 150%. The truth is the truth. Remember this, Jesus was rejected and killed for telling the truth. When Jesus crack the sky to rapture His church and many gay "christians" are left behind. Then that's why they will realize the truth. We do love, but God hates sin...and we should hate it also..not the person. However, God has mercy on us by waking us up not to continue in our sin but to repent. Do not take God's mercy for granted by telling yourself "God is okay with my sin". This is exactly what Azariah is doing. Let's pray for him. Jesus still wants to deliver him.

Posted by JuliaSugarbaker  04/17/08 4:27 PM

Please don't pay any mind to those who have posted here that you are somehow wrong or have made a bad choice or have given into something Azariah. You are who you are, and you were born that way. I too struggled in the beginning because it's hard to get out from under the thumb of those who think we decided to "give in" or "let go" and fell into sin. They fear the real truth of the matter...that you were born who you are. Why? Because if you were born gay that shatters their structured world of what is right and wrong, black and white. Because if they are wrong about this, what else might they be wrong about? It's that fear that drives them to believe we have an "agenda" and that we "recruit" new members, because the only alternative is that they are, indeed, wrong.

Posted by AKjane1  04/17/08 3:31 PM

Karen...I, too, am not a religious person BUT I do know what the Bible teaches. It says we are all suppose to 'love one another'. I don't think that means just right-wing conservatives or people like you. I'm pretty sure God, Jesus, Budda, Mohammed, etc, meant EVERYONE. 'Love thy neighbor as thyself' doesn't mean only if they're like you but it means EVERYONE. What I don't understand is, if you're not religious or gay why are you even on this site? Doesn't Fox News, Hannity or O'Reilly have something you could comment on. Since I have family members who are gay...a niece who recently came out and her 'very religious' mother threaten to take her child away; and a sister-in-law who has a 'roommate'...I find your comments insulting and, frankly, ignorant. While I am not gay nor religious...I do believe in a higher power...I love and cherish all my family.. So my advice to you is...go away Karen, go away.

Posted by God'sChoice  04/17/08 2:36 PM

Azariah, - I know how difficult it must have been for you in the past and how liberated you feel now exposing what you've denied and ignored that what was present along within you. I also know that you are a very spiritual person. However, our physical life in this physical world is just as real as the spiritual realm around us. What kind of spiritual realm do you choose? There are many different spirits that will attach to us if we allow it and entertain those spirits. It's real, and there's a battle that has been raging in your spirit fighting this until you just gave in due to physical and spiritual influences around you that have convinced you to let go and give in. Azariah, get into the spirit since I do believe that the spirit of God resides in you and all those who are filled with the Holy Spirit. God will meet you and speak to your spirit if you are truly seeking after God's heart in the spirit of God. The problem is that you have been seeking help from the influences around you everyone else but God. Now is the time. It's not too late. God's heart cries and calls out for you, and you will hear it only if you choose to listen. It's a choice. God is a God of love giving us free will and choice to choose to follow the Godly path or our own path in our lives.

Posted by God'sChoice  04/17/08 2:35 PM

Continued.... - Many are called, but few are chosen. What does this mean? It means, you are called Azariah to be a leader in God, but you must choose to follow God's calling for your life not your own or the world's calling for your life. Truly living a life for God is a choice just as Jesus Christ made the choice to live his calling out for God giving his life to save ours. What voice are we today? Will we choose to be a voice for God or Ourselves? Don't make decisions based on the influences that surround you, make your choice based on truth, love, and holiness that only comes from God. Azariah, the spirit of God resides in you so it's time for you to make the choice to listen to the best influence of all which is the God that is in YOU. -Love in Christ- :)

Posted by EvangelicalSunblock  04/17/08 2:06 PM

I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that someone whose name rhymes with Darin is a nut ball and reading the wrong paper. That being said, let's do what Jesus would do and surround her with all of the intensity of our big gay lovin. She sure does seem to need a big ol' hug. And now, I think we should all just pretend that she doesn't exist as engaging her just makes her spelling grow worse. ----- I am so proud of this guy to have come out. The saddest part of the story is his comment that he knows this will end his career in the Christian industry. But, again, it is the most brave option. Kuddos to you my friend!

Posted by h0gwash  04/17/08 1:43 PM

Karen- your terrible anger clouds your judgement and exaggerates your claims. I don't think a homosexual has recently asked you to literally kiss his butt, and I don't think you can say you have the Holy Bible on your side and also say you're not a religious person.

Posted by God'sChoice  04/17/08 12:56 PM

Azariah, I know how difficult it must have been for you in the past and how liberated you feel now exposing what you've denied and ignored that what was present along within you. I also know that you are a very spiritual person. However, our physical life in this physical world is just as real as the spiritual realm around us. What kind of spiritual realm do you choose? There are many different spirits that will attach to us if we allow it and entertain those spirits. It's real, and there's a battle that has been raging in your spirit fighting this until you just gave in due to physical and spiritual influences around you that have convinced you to let go and give in. Azariah, get into the spirit since I do believe that the spirit of God resides in you and all those who are filled with the Holy Spirit. God will meet you and speak to your spirit if you are truly seeking after God's heart in the spirit of God. The problem is that you have been seeking help from the influences around you everyone else but God. Now is the time. It's not too late. God's heart cries and calls out for you, and you will hear it only if you choose to listen. It's a choice. God is a God of love giving us free will and choice to choose to follow the Godly path or our own path in our lives.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 12:52 PM

Posted by ardillicphos 04/17/08 12:42 CST Karen, don't get me wrong... I definitely don't love you. I told you that GOD loves you, even though you're a sinner. And yes, you are a horrific sinner. As for me, I wouldn't walk across the street to take a dump on your unconscious body. But, hey... that's a Christian act too. Toodles, Karen. ----- My point exactly - there is nothing about you it seems EITHER even remotely resembling a loving heart ardillicphos. Well let's just say ardillicphos, that you better hope and PRAY that I am not around you if you ever needed CPR or anything else - because this heterosexual woman will be doing all I can to SAVE your life. You do not have to love me, but I am required by God to love you and so I repeat - GOSH I LOVE YOU MY FELLOW MAN!!!

Posted by colewake  04/17/08 12:49 PM

"A Gay Site, I should have known" come on Karen....I have a hard believing even you are that dense. It's really not that hard to figure out...

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 12:47 PM

A Gay Site, I should have known. Amazing how the Internet seems to be doing the work of the Devil these days. Most of the sites on the Internet are Porn Sites and Gay Sites and anything else in between. Another waste of man's great ability to progress gone down the drain. I just wish you people posting here would read what you are posting - I repeat - I am not a religious person, I belong to no religious denomination but I am tired of "homosexual people" making a joke out of God and trying to "sell" us on their false belief that they love God and God loves them without acknowledging to Him the wrong in their chosen SIN. You homosexuals try to slam heterosexuals and Christians who fight against the evil of your ways by labeling us as "hate mongers" and you assume that unless we literally kiss your buts then that must mean we do not know God because God and love, peace, etc. etc. etc. Just as your claim a piece of this pie of Life and that you all have this right and that right - well so do we and guess what - we have The Holy Bible on our side - what do you really have on your side to prove that He accepts you in your CHOSEN lifestyle. I am gonna have to be BANNED from this site for exercising my Freedom of Speech, so until then if I feel the need to reply to anyone addressing me then I will be around.

Posted by ardillicphos  04/17/08 12:42 PM

Karen, don't get me wrong... I definitely don't love you. I told you that GOD loves you, even though you're a sinner. And yes, you are a horrific sinner. As for me, I wouldn't walk across the street to take a dump on your unconscious body. But, hey... that's a Christian act too. Toodles, Karen.

Posted by NeptuneRose  04/17/08 12:26 PM

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO @ someone arguing about homosexuality on a GAY website. DUH? Karen darling, you're fighting a losing battle. You might as well go outside and slam your head into the sidewalk, as its possible that might be more productive. As for the issue at hand, judge not lest you are ready to sit in that same judgment seat. Last I recall, it goes against the basic Christian principles to judge and condemn. As for this guy, the host of that show, perhaps he knew the standards set before him, about personal life and behavior, in order to have this job or career, and perhaps he lied and mislead people in order to get what he wanted and to where he wanted. Good for him for coming clean. Hopefully he will recognize that by deceiving to begin with, he does deserve to be fired.

Posted by h0gwash  04/17/08 12:02 PM

Azariah Southworth is no longer afraid of you, Karen. He knows that God has chosen different paths for you and him. He loves that you give your life great thoughtfulness, and he forgives you that you post ugliness because he knows you are well meaning.

Posted by radiusforms  04/17/08 11:32 AM

Karen - No one is scared away. We just don't have time, energy, or interest in arguing with hate-mongers and trolls ... especially those who don't even have a grasp on the basic talking points of their own religion. All you get is a couple of snarky, mocking replies, and then we all move on with our lives.

Posted by erikmsp  04/17/08 11:28 AM

Good for him. If he visits Minneapolis, he's welcome at our congregation.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 11:22 AM

Oops, sorry, I seem to have scared everyone away. I'll check back later for the next round.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 11:06 AM

Posted by ardillicphos - My comment posted at 10:57 CST, please accept it as a reply to you as well. Thank you. GOSH I LOVE YOU TOO!!!!

Posted by wpankey  04/17/08 11:03 AM

First of all: http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/ for those of you still using the Old Testament (esp. Leviticus) as an argument against homosexuality. And secondly, does anyone have contact information for Azariah? I would love to send him a message of encouragement. This was incredibly brave and genuine on his part.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 10:57 AM

Fredburrows--How about "Thou shalt not commit fornication" (sex before marriage - homosexuals CANNOT marry according to the Laws of the Land), and in cases it can also fall under "Thou shalt not commit adultery", as we have all seen in the Headlines lately married men "coming out of the closet". I don't profess to be CHRISTIAN. I know I'm a "sinner" but I refuse to live a life where I have to continuously ask God to forgive me for something that I have done and continue to do instead of trusting in his Love and guidance in the RIGHT direction, and I can guarantee you that I'll never make a mockery of God nor his Son Jesus Christ--the lesson I learned long ago was that as powerful as what God is, the DEVIL is too, and I ask God for strength in being able to recongise when I'm being tempted by the Devil-you know to be able to know the difference between right & wrong especially since the Devil works in such subtle ways. I'm of no religious affilition due to exactly what we are discussing here today-a man hosting a "Christian" show for young people and knowing all along that he lives or desires to live a lifestyle of homosexuality and seemingly with such anticipation and excitment-the HYPOCRACY. Did you read anything in my post that said I don't LOVE my fellow man or was it what you read proof of my HATRED for the sin of homosexuality. P.S. About my inability to spell correctly-I have since asked God to forgive me for being so uneducated because it offends you.

Posted by HermitageForward  04/17/08 10:57 AM

I wonder of Karen knows that King James, the monarch who orchestrated the translation of the Holy Bible, was gay? He had 4 documented lovers. Have you thanked a gay for your religion today?

Posted by radiusforms  04/17/08 10:37 AM

Poor Karen, she's just SO EXHAUSTED from all the hundreds of of "teachings of God in the Scriptures of The Holy Bible" and she got a little CONFUSED about The Ten Commandments. Karen is stressed out. It's so hard to keep all the RULES straight. You see, Karen NEVER does a single act of work on Sundays because The Ten Commandments forbid it, Karen never wears cotton with wool because The Scriptures forbid it, Karen NEVER places cheese and meat on the same plate because The Scriptures forbid it, KAREN never eats pork because The Scriptures forbid it, Karen NEVER allows a man (even her husband) to see her for seven days following the appearance of her period because The Scriptures forbid it. She's just been so busy STONING her children for talking back and SELLING her daughters into slavery as The Scriptures command, and she's just so sad that she doesn't have any photos of those dead kids because The Ten Commandments forbid it. So COME ON. Give Karen a break. Being Christ-like is HARD work.

Posted by Fredburrows  04/17/08 10:21 AM

Karen, first off, you're fortunate one of the "Ten Commendments," as you call them, is not proper spelling. Second, I'm confused as to which of the Ten Commandments forbids homosexuality. If you want to try to make a biblical case against homosexuality, flimsy as it may be, at least know the scriptures you're citing.

Posted by ardillicphos  04/17/08 10:15 AM

obviously I meant to say "your version is NOT the one that everyone else follows..."

Posted by ardillicphos  04/17/08 10:14 AM

Karen, God loves you too. He hates your sins but he loves you, as a sinner. What you need to know, dear Child of God, is that your version of Christianity is the one that everyone else follows. "And they'll know that we're Christians by our love..." God Bless You, Karen. You need spritual healing.

Posted by dianetime  04/17/08 10:09 AM

I admire your courage and applaud you for not living life as a lie. I am stunned at some of the hateful comments from "Christians", but they are the ones living life as a lie by thinking they are Christians.

Posted by Karen  04/17/08 10:00 AM

This is so sickening. I sure as heck hope that your "teachings" on your show to children all over does not now make you a HYPOCRITE in the eyes of GOD. Please do not from here on out refer to yourself as a "Christian" as the very meaning of this word is to be Christ like - and your lifestyle of CHOICE which you have now "come out" into is totally against the teachings of God in the Scriptures of The Holy Bible. Please, I beg you do not "sell" this lifestyle you have CHOISEN to the young people of the World. You and others like you CANNOT re-write Gods 10 Commendments nor re-invent His meaning behind each and every one of them and there is NO room for misinterpretation of any one of the Ten Commendments. You have CHOSEN your gay sex lifestyle please do not put the BURDEN on God to forgive you and accept YOU for the way YOU are - because HE did not "CREATE" you the way you have CHOSEN. As you should know - God will be there for you when you are ready to REPENT for your sinful ways. Wow, people like YOU make MY World inch closer and closer and closer each minute to the END - and I do not appreciate that. Right is Right and Wrong is Wrong - there is NO in between.

Posted by JuliaSugarbaker  04/17/08 9:44 AM

I'll pray for you jabee, for it is you and Christianity who are at odds. Accepting who one is has nothing to do with being politically correct. It's your condescending tone and the fact that you can't even address Azariah by his name in your judgmental post that's truly at odds with Christ's teachings. And as for the Bible, well...it has been rewritten for centuries to suit the needs of those who wish to oppress and promote their own "moral authority."

Posted by jabee  04/17/08 9:11 AM

This guy can re-write and re-interpret the Bible to suit his lifestyle all he wants, but homosexuality and Christianity are completely at odds. We can love the sinner but hate the sin...and homosexuality is a sin...regardless of the pc police!

Posted by buckbuck11  04/17/08 7:29 AM

Congratulations! There are many (authentic!) Christian communities who will welcome you with open arms. You'll read the New Testament with new eyes and realize God's unconditional love for you! Check out www.reformedcatholicchurch.org as just one example of a community who prizes and affirms you as you are. Peace!

Posted by greenpointguy  04/17/08 7:07 AM

As an athiest, I say BRAVO to you...you are a true hero to countless terrified, closeted Christians, forced to follow SELECTIVELY chosen Levitican rules of behavior, written thousands of years ago by a tribe located halfway around the earth, with little to none of the cultural background of Americans today THANK YOU.

Posted by avennbrown  04/17/08 12:23 AM

Great work Azariah. As a pentecostal high profile preacher i'm well aware of the price one can pay to be honest with yourself and others. I came out 16 years ago now after 22 years trying everything to change my sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual including 16 years of marriage. I could never go back to living in the closet. its a dark place of fear and shame. Living with authenticity and integrity is so liberating. i'm sure your courage will inspire others as mine has.

Posted by borobuddy  04/16/08 10:01 PM

As a gay Christian who can attest to the cold shoulders received from so many of those I thought to be my Christian family....may I extend an invitation to you to come to Holy Trinity. There you will find NO ONE who will fire you (however, Pastor Cindy may just get you fired up!) There you will find families both straight and gay, members of many ethnic backgrounds, old friends and many new one's to make. Come to Holy Trinity...because church isn't where you should catch HELL!

Posted by Global_Citizen  04/16/08 8:32 PM

Good for you Azariah. What you're doing is so brave, braver than I have been capable of being. You make me proud. As one of those you mentioned who worked in Christian music myself, I understand all too well that it does mean the end of your career in Christian music. Which is as unfortunate as it is unnecessary. Yes, there are many others in Christian music (including artists themselves) who are gay. I wish they would all come out. I wish I could come out.

Posted by empilou  04/16/08 5:46 PM

I am all in favor of this young man coming out. No one should live in the closet. But as far as God being involved in any of this, get a life folks. If there was a God, George Bush would never have been president, Katrina would never have happened, 9/11 would never have happened. Stop kidding yourselves. God has nothing to do with anything - there is no God.

Posted by sfden  04/16/08 4:40 PM

Good for you man! Real Christians know that God loves everyone just the way they are, and HE DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES! It's all part of a bigger, wonderful plan..... Meanwhile, keep the faith, baby!

Posted by yorksa10  04/16/08 2:21 PM

Bravo dude. It takes alot of courage to come out. Especially as a christian such as yourself. Be proud of who you are.

Posted by countryboipride  04/16/08 2:09 PM

Azariah, you are to be commended for your courage to do this and I'm so proud of you! The Nashville GLBT Community needs more people like you and I hope you'll look to the community for support if/when you might need it. Thank you for sharing the news. You are a great Christian and will have a place with God.

Posted by colewake  04/16/08 1:56 PM

Congrats Azariah! I hope you are able to use your story to help others trapped in the closet because of religion find their way out.